vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
I don't know the answer to that. My sails have very little chafe, despite their age. I have had the genoa stitching redone and a new UV strip but the sailcloth appears to be in good condition.
Laminate sails v conventional dacron
- Thread starter Sailfree
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I don't know the answer to that. My sails have very little chafe, despite their age. I have had the genoa stitching redone and a new UV strip but the sailcloth appears to be in good condition.
doris
Well-Known Member
To answer the OP's original question.
On my 39 footer; with 14kts across the deck and hard on the laminates gave me 7.2 kts, Dacron only gave me 6.5. Also the laminates pointed several degrees higher. This was when both sets of sails were new. The laminates were not super state of the art but designed for short handed off shore racing and therefore more robust than the stuff used for crewed sailing.top of the range laminates would have produced a bigger gain.
After a few years cruising the Dacron is now at least a quarter of a knot slower than new.
I can't understand why anyone buys Dacron today as cruising laminates give a huge performance up lift.
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
The benifits of laminate are huge (costs aside). because the laminate can hold its shape you will heal less and thus be able to carry for sail and therefore go faster. Almost every boat will reach hull speed in some directions and some wind strengths but with a laminate you can point higher and go faster in different directions.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
The original Dacron sails on our boat were shot in 2/3 years. I replaced the jib with a Kemp laminate new in 2003 and have done about 2000 miles yearly since then, not all sailing of course, but including a lot of sailing in force 6s. The jib is still serviceable for another year or two and hasn't been re stitched, other than having a sacrificial patch put on when I got fed up with using a cover.
geem
Well-Known Member
I think laminates are fine if you are a keen coastal cruiser who likes the performance benefits. Who wouldnt want to go faster and closer to the wind.
We had a laminate genoa on our last boat that was in good condition and only 24 months old before we set off on an Atlantic circuit. The sail only just got around the Atlantic with extensive patching in Azores on the way home. They may have improved their UV resistance since we had laminate but I wont forget the hassle that laminate sail gave us.
Our new sails are ripstop Dacron. Not high tec but that should get us home and we can repair them. I think it is horses for courses. Dacron does have a place
We had a laminate genoa on our last boat that was in good condition and only 24 months old before we set off on an Atlantic circuit. The sail only just got around the Atlantic with extensive patching in Azores on the way home. They may have improved their UV resistance since we had laminate but I wont forget the hassle that laminate sail gave us.
Our new sails are ripstop Dacron. Not high tec but that should get us home and we can repair them. I think it is horses for courses. Dacron does have a place
bbg
Well-Known Member
And I would add - to echo the thoughts of yoda in post #2 - the difference between the two will increase over time as dacron stretches and the laminate holds its shape better.
Angele
Well-Known Member
Umm! How do you work that out?
If 6.57 kts is his hull speed, then the square root of his waterline length is 6.57 / 1.34 = 4.9, which means his waterline length is 24 feet.
Now, I don't know what the waterline length of a Jeanneau 43DS is but, since the LOA is about 13.2 metres (= over 43 feet), I'm guessing it is a fair bit more than 24 feet.
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Angele
Well-Known Member
I have had a set of cruising laminate sails since I bought my boat new in 2005. So, they are about to enter their 10 season. Not sure of the exact name of the cloth sandwich, but it is lasting well. I was told to expect 7 years out of them, longer if I looked after them. Angele is fairly lightly used and I do look after them. But, then again, I have been out in some pretty rough weather. No signs yet that I need to bin them and replace.
Tim Bennet (post #11) is right when he mentions mildew within the laminate. My genoa suffered that after only 2 years. My sailmaker treated it with a fungicidal wash to stop its spread, but the discoloured patches are a permanent reminder of that episode.
All-in-all, they have exceeded my expectations. 10 years on, the sails set as well as they did on day one. I know that I will need to replace them before long, but I'll have gotten my money's worth out of them when I do.
Of course, since these are the only (white) sails I have owned on Angele, I cannot do a comparison with dacron.
Tim Bennet (post #11) is right when he mentions mildew within the laminate. My genoa suffered that after only 2 years. My sailmaker treated it with a fungicidal wash to stop its spread, but the discoloured patches are a permanent reminder of that episode.
All-in-all, they have exceeded my expectations. 10 years on, the sails set as well as they did on day one. I know that I will need to replace them before long, but I'll have gotten my money's worth out of them when I do.
Of course, since these are the only (white) sails I have owned on Angele, I cannot do a comparison with dacron.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
But Dacron's better for those first three years?
Angele
Well-Known Member
Not better, no. But probably not materially inferior (except if the wind is strong and they stretch a bit).
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
>Modern boats can break that rule
Only surfing. Our hull speed was 6.7 knots but reached 9.2 knots when pushed by a big wave.
>If you want to increase speed I would look to reducing weight, distributing weight correctly, a folding prop (if you don't already have), sail trim, reducing wind-age, a clean bottom
Agree but reducing weight with on a long distance boat is impossible because of the amount of kit, water and diesel you need. Our steel boat weighed 12 tons but 14 tons with what I've mentioned. Mind you when we took the teak decks off the boat rose 2 inches in the water. So teak decks are a start.
Only surfing. Our hull speed was 6.7 knots but reached 9.2 knots when pushed by a big wave.
>If you want to increase speed I would look to reducing weight, distributing weight correctly, a folding prop (if you don't already have), sail trim, reducing wind-age, a clean bottom
Agree but reducing weight with on a long distance boat is impossible because of the amount of kit, water and diesel you need. Our steel boat weighed 12 tons but 14 tons with what I've mentioned. Mind you when we took the teak decks off the boat rose 2 inches in the water. So teak decks are a start.
flaming
Well-Known Member
No.
Laminates are faster out of the box, especially if you actually make adjust controls such as cunningham, outhaul, kicker etc rather than just set and forget as laminates are much more shapable due to lower stretch. But the difference just gets bigger over time as the dacron stretches and the laminate doesn't (anything like as much as much...).
Personally I feel that laminates / high tech cruising weaves are now very proven technology. Cost issues aside the only scenario I would still consider dacron for would be Ocean cruising, where ease of repair in far flung places and ultimate lifespan may still trump performance.
bbg
Well-Known Member
I did a lot of racing with a Kiwi sailmaker a few years back, and he was adamant that laminates were the only sensible choice for ocean cruising. Ultimate lifespan being one of the advantages with the correct cloth.
Angele
Well-Known Member
Just to be clear, the OP is not at his hull speed. See post #27.
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
>I did a lot of racing with a Kiwi sailmaker a few years back, and he was adamant that laminates were the only sensible choice for ocean cruising.
I wonder if he had ever been ocean cruising I never saw a cruising boat with laminate sails. But the ocean racing boats do use them.
I wonder if he had ever been ocean cruising I never saw a cruising boat with laminate sails. But the ocean racing boats do use them.
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
One thing not mention so far:
Laminates suffer very badly from UV degradation.
I have just replaced my Furling dacron main with a Vectron fabric from Crusader.
Having had the luff trimmed down twice in 3 years, the apparent uncontrolled stretching of standard dacron is a real problem on furling mains. I am hoping that the Vectron will be more reliable.
Laminates suffer very badly from UV degradation.
I have just replaced my Furling dacron main with a Vectron fabric from Crusader.
Having had the luff trimmed down twice in 3 years, the apparent uncontrolled stretching of standard dacron is a real problem on furling mains. I am hoping that the Vectron will be more reliable.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
'Swhat I thought. If dacron was as good as laminate for three years, I'd expect to see dacron sails on racing boats and I don't. I remember going to a White Horst Cruising Club talk by a prominent sailmaker 20+ years ago - when it was all terylene, more or less - where he said that he regularly made two complete sets of sails per year for keen racers. On once occasion a set last only for one race to France and back.
Martin999
Well-Known Member
does Vectran suffer with staining that cannot be cleaned as per earlier laminate complaint
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
BigEmUp
New Member
One knot is my guess from having changed from baggy dacron to carbon/vectran. But downwind, not so much. In light winds more relative improvement (stiffer sails).
