Keep it simple lads ... Flying the flag !

[Refueler]

We are generally aware that various Registers allow 'foreign' nationals to register Boats for International Certificates .... Polish - Swedish etc.

These 'Registers' are usually based on national Associations being given 'permission' to issue ... but they are not full Registry of course.

Lets take Swedish Int Cert. Many Baltic boats go for this as it has no inspection ... is purely a paper exercise with Bill of Sale as proof of ownership etc. It cannot issue for a Company - only for Private Ownership.

Technically - even though all the boats do - you are not 'authorised' to fly Swedish Flag on the stern ... in theory you should fly the flag of the owners nationality.

Imagine me ... "Anisette" .. 38ft boat ... Swedish Int Cert. .. moored in Latvia. Myself a UK Passport Holder with Latvian Residency. Becomes interesting what Latvian Border Guards would do if I changed the flag from Swedish to UK or even Latvian ... but still hold the Swedish Int Cert.

With the Nato / Russ paranoia here .. when boats are stopped outside the harbours - we show Residence Card .. Int Cert ... flag of course is on transom .. and the Guards shrug shoulders and wish good sail ...

It intrigues me to see what would happen if I did fly the Red Duster UK flag ... I have a pristine one on my desk .....

[corrected]

 

[Buck Turgidson]

You can only fly a red duster if you are a British registered yacht. That is literally what it indicates.

 

[Refueler]

You can only fly a red duster if you are a British registered yacht. That is literally what it indicates.

I was posting loosely ... I have a UK flag as well ...

Its an interesting subject ... not just a matter of throw a towel on the back end ..

 

[awol]

[pedant] Doesn't one wear an ensign?[/pedant]

 

[VicS]

I was posting loosely ... I have a UK flag as well ...

Its an interesting subject ... not just a matter of throw a towel on the back end ..

People would assume you came from Bath if you did that.
.

 

[Sandy]

It intrigues me to see what would happen if I did fly the Red Duster ... I have a pristine one on my desk .....

Luckily, you are in a position to find out, many posters on here are not.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I am in a similar position as Refueler

I have a boat that is registered in Sout Africa, but I hold British citizenship as well as South African Citizenship so could register my boat in the UK on Part 1 of the register. I cannot register my boat as Part 3 as I am not resident in the UK.

I have registered my boat in on the South African register as inspections are required in South Africa even if registered in another jurisdiction.

I have consider registering my boat in Poland as it's a once off registration and no inspection is required but I still need South Arican inspection at a cost to my self

 

[Refueler]

My MoBo and Motor sailer are Latvian Registry - so they carry Latvian Flag officially and legally.

But the 38ft'r is Swedish Int Cert ... so in that grey area ...

Spoken to many others who cruise widely with Swedish Int Cert and they say they have never had any problems ... so my posting is really a 'festive thread' to see what thoughts ...

 

[dunedin]

We are generally aware that various Registers allow 'foreign' nationals to register Boats for International Certificates .... Polish - Swedish etc.

These 'Registers' are usually based on national Associations being given 'permission' to issue ... but they are not full Registry of course.

Lets take Swedish Int Cert. Many Baltic boats go for this as it has no inspection ... is purely a paper exercise with Bill of Sale as proof of ownership etc. It cannot issue for a Company - only for Private Ownership.

….

Is this a common arrangement - or specific only to the Swedish scheme you have used?

Most countries seem to take their ships registers very seriously and with such registration comes a specific ensign to be flown/worn? <Pedant Mode - “worn” generally applied only to UK ensigns? >

What other arrangements have you come across that makes you think this is not exceptional?
And per previous threads, the Swedish informal scheme is probably less of an issue in neighbouring Baltic countries, but likely to be more of an issue if travel further.

 

[ylop]

You can only fly a red duster if you are a British registered yacht. That is literally what it indicates.

Not quite right. You can fly the red ensign on any small vessel owned by British citizens which is not registered anywhere else. There is no actual requirement for a vessel to be on a British register to fly the ensign. I dont understand enough about the Swedish scheme to know if it is considered a register under the terms of the Merchant Shipping Act (s1(d)(iii)) because if it doesn’t entitle the vessel to fly the flag of the relevant register I am not sure it really is a register.

[pedant] Doesn't one wear an ensign?[/pedant]

The merchant shipping act (s2) says “flag… …entitled to fly…” [it does refer to colours being worn by vessels that have warrants to do so etc].

 

[ylop]

Refueller - International certificate | Svenska Kryssarklubben

Seems to suggest you could fly a Latvian flag?

 

[capnsensible]

If you want some fairly quick advice from a local authority simply fly an ISIS flag. Prompt response assured.

 

[MontyMariner]

I've always thought that the flag a boat flies is related to where the boat is registered and nothing to do with who owns the boat.
Think Superyachts registered in the Caymans or the like.

 

[Mark-1]

You can only fly a red duster if you are a British registered yacht. That is literally what it indicates.

Nope, you get automatically have British flagged status if you are UK resident and your boat is under 24 meters.

Merchant Shipping Act 1995
British ships and United Kingdom ships.

(1)A ship is a British ship if—

(a)the ship is registered in the United Kingdom under Part II; or

(b)the ship is, as a Government ship, registered in the United Kingdom in pursuance of an Order in Council under section 308; or

(c)the ship is registered under the law of a relevant British possession; or

(d)the ship is a small ship other than a fishing vessel and—

(i)is not registered under Part II, but

(ii)is wholly owned by qualified owners, and

(iii)is not registered under the law of a country outside the United Kingdom.

(2)For the purposes of subsection (1)(d) above—

“qualified owners” means persons of such description qualified to own British ships as is prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State for the purposes of that paragraph; and

“small ship” means a ship less than 24 metres in length (“length” having the same meaning as in the tonnage regulations).

Merchant Shipping Act 1995

I thought 'qualified owners' were based entirely on residency but someone on this forum once reckoned it was:

Qualified Owners are:

"British citizens; or
British Dependent Territories Citizens; or
British Overseas Citizens; or
Companies incorporated in an EEA country; or
Companies incorporated in any British overseas possession which has its principal place of business in the UK or the possession; or
European Economic Interest Groupings"

Either way, most of us have British Vessels by default, we don't need to do anything. (Which is nice.)

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Nope, you get automatically have British flagged status if you are UK resident and your boat is under 24 meters.

Merchant Shipping Act 1995
British ships and United Kingdom ships.

(1)A ship is a British ship if—

(a)the ship is registered in the United Kingdom under Part II; or

(b)the ship is, as a Government ship, registered in the United Kingdom in pursuance of an Order in Council under section 308; or

(c)the ship is registered under the law of a relevant British possession; or

(d)the ship is a small ship other than a fishing vessel and—

(i)is not registered under Part II, but

(ii)is wholly owned by qualified owners, and

(iii)is not registered under the law of a country outside the United Kingdom.

(2)For the purposes of subsection (1)(d) above—

“qualified owners” means persons of such description qualified to own British ships as is prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State for the purposes of that paragraph; and

“small ship” means a ship less than 24 metres in length (“length” having the same meaning as in the tonnage regulations).

Merchant Shipping Act 1995

I thought 'qualified owners' were based entirely on residency but someone on this forum once reckoned it was:

Qualified Owners are:

"British citizens; or
British Dependent Territories Citizens; or
British Overseas Citizens; or
Companies incorporated in an EEA country; or
Companies incorporated in any British overseas possession which has its principal place of business in the UK or the possession; or
European Economic Interest Groupings"

Either way, most of us have British Vessels by default, we don't need to do anything. (Which is nice.)

Nope.
If he is already wearing/flying a Swedish Flag then changing to a Red Ensign would indicate he was previously hiding the nationality of his vessel. If his vessel is Swedish then Flying the Ensign would mean he is now concealing the identity of his ship.

Either is against the Merchant shipping act.

Offences relating to British character of ship.​

(1)If the master or owner of a ship which is not a British ship does anything, or permits anything to be done, for the purpose of causing the ship to appear to be a British ship then, except as provided by subsections (2) and (3) below, the ship shall be liable to forfeiture and the master, the owner and any charterer shall each be guilty of an offence.

(2)No liability arises under subsection (1) above where the assumption of British nationality has been made for the purpose of escaping capture by an enemy or by a foreign ship of war in the exercise of some belligerent right.

(3)Where the registration of any ship has terminated by virtue of any provision of registration regulations, any marks prescribed by registration regulations displayed on the ship within the period of 14 days beginning with the date of termination of that registration shall be disregarded for the purposes of subsection (1) above.

(4)If the master or owner of a British ship does anything, or permits anything to be done, for the purpose of concealing the nationality of the ship, the ship shall be liable to forfeiture and the master, the owner and any charterer of the ship shall each be guilty of an offence.

(5)Without prejudice to the generality of subsections (1) and (4) above, those subsections apply in particular to acts or deliberate omissions as respects—

(a)the flying of a national flag;

(b)the carrying or production of certificates of registration or other documents relating to the nationality of the ship; and

(c)the display of marks required by the law of any country.

(6)Any person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—

(a)on summary conviction, to [F1a fine not exceeding £50,000] [F1a fine];

(b)on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or a fine, or both.

(7)This section applies to things done outside, as well as to things done within, the United Kingdom.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Not quite right. You can fly the red ensign on any small vessel owned by British citizens which is not registered anywhere else. There is no actual requirement for a vessel to be on a British register to fly the ensign. I dont understand enough about the Swedish scheme to know if it is considered a register under the terms of the Merchant Shipping Act (s1(d)(iii)) because if it doesn’t entitle the vessel to fly the flag of the relevant register I am not sure it really is a register.

The merchant shipping act (s2) says “flag… …entitled to fly…” [it does refer to colours being worn by vessels that have warrants to do so etc].

He is wearing a Swedish Flag. See my post above.

 

[ylop]

He is wearing a Swedish Flag. See my post above.

Just because he may have been wrongly flying a Swedish flag does not mean he cannot now fly a British Ensign if he is actually entitled to do so.

 

[Mark-1]

Nope.
If he is already wearing/flying a Swedish Flag then changing to a Red Ensign would indicate he was previously hiding the nationality of his vessel. If his vessel is Swedish then Flying the Ensign would mean he is now concealing the identity of his ship.

Either is against the Merchant shipping act.

I wasn't replying to the OP, I just posted the rules for someone else.

 

[Refueler]

Guys ... lets ease on down ....

1. I am fully aware that Swedish Int Cert does not entitle me to fly the Swedish Flag.
2. The Swedish Int Cert cites the general practice of flying Owners nationality Flag as per a Non Registry small vessel ... note the use of word Registry and not Register.

Some have tried to introduce larger Vessels rules in the thread - please do not as this can derail and confuse. "Ships" rules are far more defined and less flexible. Lets stick to our boats and a flag on the back end ...

Latvia requires a Document indicating Register ... and any visiting boat will be expected to have its ensign hoisted and courtesy flag if not of Latvian ... Latvia honours Comity ... look that up if necessary.

OK ... I'm still intrigued about my possibility to hoist a UK flag ...... but would be wary of doing so here - as the local border guards could misunderstand ..

 

[Sandy]

OK ... I'm still intrigued about my possibility to hoist a UK flag ...... but would be wary of doing so here - as the local border guards could misunderstand ..

Go on, you love the sound of the twang of marigolds.

If we don't hear from you for some time who shall we send the Red Cross parcels to? Do you prefer Quality Street or Calibrations? We should be able to pick them up at discount prices after the festive shenanigans.