Just about ready to go.

Concerto

Well-known member
Joined
16 Jul 2014
Messages
6,152
Location
Chatham Maritime Marina
Visit site
Should have left a few weeks ago for my Round Britian trip, but many technical difficulties have delayed me.

The upgrade to have pressurised hot and cold water with a shower took far longer than planned. The parts were ordered shortly after the Southampton Show from ASAP, but stock arrivals meant the last bits arrived in January when it was too cold to work on the water. The shower drain should have taken a couple of hours to fit, but took 4 days as I to access under a shower tray against a bulkhed. This meant cutting a slot for my hand to support the fitting with hose attatched but I could not get it to seal properly. When I started the main hot and cold pipework, I have over 500mm (20") of glassfibre and plywood to drill trough with a hole cutter. Despite wearing knee pads, I sucumbed to housemaids knee.

Then I found a small leak on the water tank and there was a problem removing as one bolt was impossible to reach and a new access hole had to be made. This was a pig of a job as the filler piope and vent are in the transom. When refitting I used new hoses. All of this spanned 4 days. More details in this thread. Any ideas how to remove this difficult bolt.

The calorifier was to be mounted behind the engine and in front of the water tank. It was only then did I discover that the lower half of the bulkhead was 12mm and the top was 6mm with a joining strip of 12mm plywood over the joint. The upper portion would not have supported the weight in rough weather. This meant the whole water system had to be move under part of the quarter berth. Now all my hoses were not long enough, so more had to be ordered and I also found the delivery of Jubilee clips was never completed. Progress was slow as I hate working under my body, especially at arms length in the quarterberth. As I went to fit the galley taps, I found the tails had been omitted from the order plus I needed 4 extra Jubilee clips. These were ordered on a Friday morning for delivery on Saturday to the marina. These parts did arrive on Saturday at 17.50, just before I was to leave for home, thanks Yodel.

Now was the time to fit the new fridge unit to the cool box. The compressor was to be mounted, in protective box I made, the sail locker just aft of the galley. The shape of the cooling plate meant it had to be fitted on the inboard fore and aft side with a 35mm hole required through the bulkhead. Numerous measurements were made to ensure I missed the gas pipe, I started the hole from the cool box, the work top is quite high so I was on a wooden box and working blind under part of the counter. I started with a 6 mm drill to check it was in the correct place, but it did not pass throught the glassfibre moulding, the 40mm of insulation and the 12mm bulkhead. So I used the hole cutter to open it so the drill would have extra access. Changing back to the 6mm drill, it still did not appear in the sail locker. I was puzzled, so I minimised the amount of shank in the chuck and tried again. Bingo, a small amount of drill had appeared in the Danbolin paint. So, I decided to use the hole cutter from the sail locker. I forgot the drill had come out through a conduit full of cables due to the paint. I cut a lot of cables and managed to joint them back together and only 2, which I thought were lighting cables, might be switched on rejointing. More details here. What is this? Later I removed the old conduit and fitted two larger conduits to accomodate the numerous chocolate box used in the joints.

All of this meant I needed extra switches on the electric panel. I had ordered a new electric panel, upgrading from fuses to circuit breakers. To be honest the wiring is a complete rats nest, thanks Westerly, and nothing was labelled. As each cable was disconnected, it was labelled with a Dymo label. The connection for all the negatives was massive so I added a new bus just for them and all the cabin lights were put in a large chocolate box in a container to stop any potential shorting. There was also some additional 240V wiring for the fridge compressor to work on shore power when connected and a switch to turn it off if not required, plus the immersion heater and separate switch. So a nice easy job to wire it all in. Some wires have been joined using Wago clips and a short extension wire as there was insufficient original cable to fit easilly on the new panel. I have one negative wire that no longer has a connector, and needs to be checked. So far only one cabin light is not working and the stern light is not working even though the bulb has not blown. I may just fit a new cable to the stern light for speed.

Once all the plumbing was finished, I filled the water tank. I tested the shower pump, it worked. Then I checked the fridge unit was working, it. Finally I turned on the water pump, it worked. Unfortunately, most of the joints leaked. Off went the pump. All of the Jubilee clips had been tighted with a 7mm socket on a screwdriver handle, but this was not enough. So I transfered the socket to a small ratchet handle and tightened them all up and tested the water pump again. A lot less water leaks but not perfect yet. I had forgotton the check the galley taps and loo taps. I found the galley cutlery tray caught a lot of water and was partially filled, but the loo taps were dry. Repeated tightening of the Jubilee clips stopped almost all of the leaks except for a couple under the quarter berth and the galley taps. Eventually the quarter berth fittings were dismantled and I replaced the PTFE tape with extra layers. Refitted and now there was only a very slight weep, which finally stopped with repeated tighening of the Jubilee clips. The galley taps was a different story. They are difficult to get at as the counter is 36 inches above the floor. The access is via the cupboard underneath and it is a long stretch with limited room because of the sink. Then I had the bright idea of removing the sink for better access. One of the 4 stainless steel holding clips had rusted and would not budge, no matter what I tried. So back in the cupboard I went. I should mention you lie on a 12mm edge of plywood, then I used a section of the cabin floor to save my back. I removed the tails off the taps, resealed them, refitted the hoses - they still leaked. I tried this several times, but they kept leaking. I got soaking arms trying to fix it. I could not see how they continued to leak. The following day I decided to try changing the Jubilee clips. The ones supplied were slightly oversize and could not clamp tight enough. The smaller ones fixed the leaky taps straight away. It looks like I may end up changing all of the Jubilee clips to a smaller size.

Oh, I do love working on boats. Every job always seems to take 3 or 4 times longer than I expect, before any addition problems. So in the morning I am fitting the 3 new ships batteries, filling up with diesel, and moving down river for an early start on Monday morning heading for Woolverstone Marina near Harwich. Next stop will be Lowestoft and I will celebrate the Jubilee Weekend in Wells. Remember, I am heading for the Shetland Islands, not the Caledonian Canal route. I still have not yet had any time to test fly my new drone, so aerial photos will have to wait a few days.

No doubt I will find a few new jobs that require some attention in the coming months. I will try to post where I expect to be, so if you see Concerto, come over and have a chat. Videos will be posted regularly, which should entertain and be informative, plus make a few of you want to do a similar trip (yes, I know I am not the first, but it is my first long distance trip). I expect to return at the end of September.
 

MADRIGAL

Active member
Joined
12 Jan 2019
Messages
374
Visit site
Should have left a few weeks ago for my Round Britian trip, but many technical difficulties have delayed me.

The upgrade to have pressurised hot and cold water with a shower took far longer than planned. The parts were ordered shortly after the Southampton Show from ASAP, but stock arrivals meant the last bits arrived in January when it was too cold to work on the water. The shower drain should have taken a couple of hours to fit, but took 4 days as I to access under a shower tray against a bulkhed. This meant cutting a slot for my hand to support the fitting with hose attatched but I could not get it to seal properly. When I started the main hot and cold pipework, I have over 500mm (20") of glassfibre and plywood to drill trough with a hole cutter. Despite wearing knee pads, I sucumbed to housemaids knee.

Then I found a small leak on the water tank and there was a problem removing as one bolt was impossible to reach and a new access hole had to be made. This was a pig of a job as the filler piope and vent are in the transom. When refitting I used new hoses. All of this spanned 4 days. More details in this thread. Any ideas how to remove this difficult bolt.

The calorifier was to be mounted behind the engine and in front of the water tank. It was only then did I discover that the lower half of the bulkhead was 12mm and the top was 6mm with a joining strip of 12mm plywood over the joint. The upper portion would not have supported the weight in rough weather. This meant the whole water system had to be move under part of the quarter berth. Now all my hoses were not long enough, so more had to be ordered and I also found the delivery of Jubilee clips was never completed. Progress was slow as I hate working under my body, especially at arms length in the quarterberth. As I went to fit the galley taps, I found the tails had been omitted from the order plus I needed 4 extra Jubilee clips. These were ordered on a Friday morning for delivery on Saturday to the marina. These parts did arrive on Saturday at 17.50, just before I was to leave for home, thanks Yodel.

Now was the time to fit the new fridge unit to the cool box. The compressor was to be mounted, in protective box I made, the sail locker just aft of the galley. The shape of the cooling plate meant it had to be fitted on the inboard fore and aft side with a 35mm hole required through the bulkhead. Numerous measurements were made to ensure I missed the gas pipe, I started the hole from the cool box, the work top is quite high so I was on a wooden box and working blind under part of the counter. I started with a 6 mm drill to check it was in the correct place, but it did not pass throught the glassfibre moulding, the 40mm of insulation and the 12mm bulkhead. So I used the hole cutter to open it so the drill would have extra access. Changing back to the 6mm drill, it still did not appear in the sail locker. I was puzzled, so I minimised the amount of shank in the chuck and tried again. Bingo, a small amount of drill had appeared in the Danbolin paint. So, I decided to use the hole cutter from the sail locker. I forgot the drill had come out through a conduit full of cables due to the paint. I cut a lot of cables and managed to joint them back together and only 2, which I thought were lighting cables, might be switched on rejointing. More details here. What is this? Later I removed the old conduit and fitted two larger conduits to accomodate the numerous chocolate box used in the joints.

All of this meant I needed extra switches on the electric panel. I had ordered a new electric panel, upgrading from fuses to circuit breakers. To be honest the wiring is a complete rats nest, thanks Westerly, and nothing was labelled. As each cable was disconnected, it was labelled with a Dymo label. The connection for all the negatives was massive so I added a new bus just for them and all the cabin lights were put in a large chocolate box in a container to stop any potential shorting. There was also some additional 240V wiring for the fridge compressor to work on shore power when connected and a switch to turn it off if not required, plus the immersion heater and separate switch. So a nice easy job to wire it all in. Some wires have been joined using Wago clips and a short extension wire as there was insufficient original cable to fit easilly on the new panel. I have one negative wire that no longer has a connector, and needs to be checked. So far only one cabin light is not working and the stern light is not working even though the bulb has not blown. I may just fit a new cable to the stern light for speed.

Once all the plumbing was finished, I filled the water tank. I tested the shower pump, it worked. Then I checked the fridge unit was working, it. Finally I turned on the water pump, it worked. Unfortunately, most of the joints leaked. Off went the pump. All of the Jubilee clips had been tighted with a 7mm socket on a screwdriver handle, but this was not enough. So I transfered the socket to a small ratchet handle and tightened them all up and tested the water pump again. A lot less water leaks but not perfect yet. I had forgotton the check the galley taps and loo taps. I found the galley cutlery tray caught a lot of water and was partially filled, but the loo taps were dry. Repeated tightening of the Jubilee clips stopped almost all of the leaks except for a couple under the quarter berth and the galley taps. Eventually the quarter berth fittings were dismantled and I replaced the PTFE tape with extra layers. Refitted and now there was only a very slight weep, which finally stopped with repeated tighening of the Jubilee clips. The galley taps was a different story. They are difficult to get at as the counter is 36 inches above the floor. The access is via the cupboard underneath and it is a long stretch with limited room because of the sink. Then I had the bright idea of removing the sink for better access. One of the 4 stainless steel holding clips had rusted and would not budge, no matter what I tried. So back in the cupboard I went. I should mention you lie on a 12mm edge of plywood, then I used a section of the cabin floor to save my back. I removed the tails off the taps, resealed them, refitted the hoses - they still leaked. I tried this several times, but they kept leaking. I got soaking arms trying to fix it. I could not see how they continued to leak. The following day I decided to try changing the Jubilee clips. The ones supplied were slightly oversize and could not clamp tight enough. The smaller ones fixed the leaky taps straight away. It looks like I may end up changing all of the Jubilee clips to a smaller size.

Oh, I do love working on boats. Every job always seems to take 3 or 4 times longer than I expect, before any addition problems. So in the morning I am fitting the 3 new ships batteries, filling up with diesel, and moving down river for an early start on Monday morning heading for Woolverstone Marina near Harwich. Next stop will be Lowestoft and I will celebrate the Jubilee Weekend in Wells. Remember, I am heading for the Shetland Islands, not the Caledonian Canal route. I still have not yet had any time to test fly my new drone, so aerial photos will have to wait a few days.

No doubt I will find a few new jobs that require some attention in the coming months. I will try to post where I expect to be, so if you see Concerto, come over and have a chat. Videos will be posted regularly, which should entertain and be informative, plus make a few of you want to do a similar trip (yes, I know I am not the first, but it is my first long distance trip). I expect to return at the end of September.
What a tale! Flanders and Swan could have written a song about it: "T'was on a Monday morning Concerto came to call; the galley taps were leaking, they would not stop at all..."
Seriously, though, it sounds like a thorough re-fitting. Madrigal to Concerto: Uniform Whisky (ICS - I wish you a pleasant voyage).
 

Stemar

Well-known member
Joined
12 Sep 2001
Messages
23,944
Location
Home - Southampton, Boat - Gosport
Visit site
What a tale! Flanders and Swan could have written a song about it: "T'was on a Monday morning Concerto came to call; the galley taps were leaking, they would not stop at all..."
Seriously, though, it sounds like a thorough re-fitting. Madrigal to Concerto: Uniform Whisky (ICS - I wish you a pleasant voyage).
(y) - One for the Jobs I never want to do again thread of a few weeks back!
 

Halo

Well-known member
Joined
10 Nov 2009
Messages
1,974
Location
Wetherby
Visit site
Wow. Must be longest post in a long time! Hope all goes well with your trip and keep us posted. I note N winds are due. Suggest you don’t even think about Wells in a Northerly.
 

Concerto

Well-known member
Joined
16 Jul 2014
Messages
6,152
Location
Chatham Maritime Marina
Visit site
Wow. Must be longest post in a long time! Hope all goes well with your trip and keep us posted. I note N winds are due. Suggest you don’t even think about Wells in a Northerly.
I expect to get there before the wind changes direction with a NE direction at the weekend. Hopefully I should enter the Humber before it gets full northerly, but the forecast is only for about 10 knots.
 

fredrussell

Well-known member
Joined
24 Mar 2015
Messages
3,517
Visit site
Anyone considering buying a boat more than, say, fifteen years old should be made to sit down and read this thread in an effort to make them understand just what they’re getting into.

How long are you in Woolverstone marina for Concerto? I only live up the road. If you need any last minute supplies let me know. I’ve PM’ed you a contact no in case you’re in need of something last minute.
 
Last edited:

fredrussell

Well-known member
Joined
24 Mar 2015
Messages
3,517
Visit site
Well mainly because I’ve never owned a boat less than fifteen years old and rather assumed, as I gazed in awe at them whooshing past me, that they’d be less of a faff generally than the older boats I can afford. Are you about to shatter the fantasy and tell me AWBs are no different from a 40 year old British boat to maintain?
 

lustyd

Well-known member
Joined
27 Jul 2010
Messages
12,502
Visit site
No boats are maintenance free. The only difference is that cable ducting has improved as it's become obvious that boats need electronics. Boats between 2-5 years might be a little better because snags are in theory fixed and things have not yet worn out, but that's just a theory and boats will always find a way to break!
 

fredrussell

Well-known member
Joined
24 Mar 2015
Messages
3,517
Visit site
No boats are maintenance free.

A revelation, cheers!

I can’t help thinking that there have been some other changes in boat design that affect maintenance other than the ducting size/type. That said, I have a 30 year old boat, so what these might be I may never know.
 

lustyd

Well-known member
Joined
27 Jul 2010
Messages
12,502
Visit site
The only other difference I can think of is that most surfaces are now finished properly so less getting stabbed with glass fibres in bilges. My boat is 20 years old but is an "AWB", and newer boats I've been on have been pretty much identical.
 

jaminb

Active member
Joined
7 Jan 2021
Messages
430
Visit site
My Jeanneau is 16 years old and has a calorifier, running hot and cold water and 2 x showers. Servicing the shower sump pump, replacing the shower head / basin tap, and replacing the calorifier pressure switch in the first year of ownership has proved character building!

I am in awe of Concerto's efforts to install from scratch.
 

jac

Well-known member
Joined
10 Sep 2001
Messages
9,234
Location
Home Berkshire, Boat Hamble
Visit site
Only owned two AWBs but have helped on a couple of others and i have become convinced that one of the mandatory design objectives is to make owner maintenance as impossible as they can. - if a simple inspection hatch would transform life then put some internal moulding there and split whatever you might be interested over 3 areas
 

Concerto

Well-known member
Joined
16 Jul 2014
Messages
6,152
Location
Chatham Maritime Marina
Visit site
Most boats of all ages are fitted out before the deck is fitted. This causes so many problems, especially toilet hoses behind panels that cannot be removed. First can across this in the early 1980's.

Although Westerly were not too good at wiring up a boat, I can only desribe it as a rats nest of cables. They did have a sailors eye on maintenance of many items. All of my toilet hoses are accessible, the space around the engine is massive, the water and fuel tanks can be removed without major surgery or taking an engine out.

Who would have thought that so many of the yachts built in the 1960's to 1990's would still be actively sailed. I never thought about how long they would last, but generally modern production methods have reduced the number of man hours to produce a boat.

By comparison I have to admire the craftsmen who fitted out the interior of Concerto to such fine tolerances and attention to detail. Every bulkhead is bonded to the hull, so no contra mould to slot into. Everything was fitted to the boat and every piece of plywood has the hull number reference on the reverse side. All the holly strips in the floor boards line up across every cabin, so looking forward from the companionway the floor in the fore cabin lines up exactly and that is difficult to do. No two boats were exactly the same as the bulkheads could not be precisely positioned. Basically it was a hand built boat in 1980, not a factory built boat.

Thankfully I have updated or upgraded so many things on Concerto, there is not much that should go wrong. Maintenance is a strong part of keeping an older boat fit for purpose. There are always people buying boats that need advice on how to work on their boats (even I do from time to time) and hopefully some of you benefit from my advice or enjoy some of the problems I have had to solve. I always believe in helping those who ask for help and sometimes try and sort out a mess they have created. Many at my marina and in the Westerly Owners Association know me as being very chatty and hopefully knowledgable. Yes I do write some fairly detailed replies on forums, but I have no axe to grind but to encourage other boat owners to improve their boats and use them.

In case you missed it in another thread, Concerto has left the marina and is starting the Round Britian trip.
 

geem

Well-known member
Joined
27 Apr 2006
Messages
8,043
Location
Caribbean
Visit site
Anyone considering buying a boat more than, say, fifteen years old should be made to sit down and read this thread in an effort to make them understand just what they’re getting into.

How long are you in Woolverstone marina for Concerto? I only live up the road. If you need any last minute supplies let me know. I’ve PM’ed you a contact no in case you’re in need of something last minute.
Maybe edit that to 10 years. Friends Jen 45DS needing all windows rebedding as they are falling out, deck fittings leaking, exhaust waterlock replacing cos the alarm never sounded when the impeller failed and hot gases melted the water lock,
They have had professional repair on the first windows. Still leaking. Bottom line is boats need lots of work regardless of age.
 

Neeves

Well-known member
Joined
20 Nov 2011
Messages
13,186
Location
Sydney, Australia.
Visit site
A revelation, cheers!

I can’t help thinking that there have been some other changes in boat design that affect maintenance other than the ducting size/type. That said, I have a 30 year old boat, so what these might be I may never know.

You may find things have actually gone down hill. What was an inconvenient bolt, or oil filter to access on a motor is now totally inaccessible as the accomodation squeezed out the space that was available previously. :(

Jonathan
 

Neeves

Well-known member
Joined
20 Nov 2011
Messages
13,186
Location
Sydney, Australia.
Visit site
Concerto

4 months to go right round? - you obviously do not intend to climb many hills, maybe that's why you have the drone.

Very interesting observation on the Jubilee clips - it might explain a lot. Well written script - well worth reading. I like to see long scripts - I don't feel so bad now :)

Fair winds

Jonathan
 

Blueboatman

Well-known member
Joined
10 Jul 2005
Messages
13,869
Visit site
Blimey
The only pointer I can offer is that Bosswhite or Sikafkex are pretty useful for plumbing .

And, I prefer Hep2O in 15mm for all pipe work, joints , connectors .
Jubilee clips vary a lot - fuel pipe hose clamps are a kinder design ?
Well done
Enjoy the fruits of a hot shower and cold drink after a nimble sail in the nifty boat
 
Top