Jeanneau

[Robin]

Hi Chris

Don't knock it until you have tried it!

It is all too easy to fall into the trap of thinking only a traditional long keeled heavyweight is safe to go to sea in. We had a heavy Laurent Giles W33 ketch, excellent boat and very suited to long distance cruising, especially for it's size. We now have a 1988 Jeanneau Sun Legende 41, the other end of the spectrum maybe? The Sun Legende though has woken me up, we can sail in winds that would have rated the iron genny before, we can enjoy passing the rest of the world upwind (quite a few of them crashing into it under engines!) or downwind under complete two finger control and we get to wear wall to wall grins on a very regular basis. Would I take her off RTW with just me and SWMBO? Too right I would, no question. Would I take her deep into the Southern Ocean and battle the storms off Cape Horn? No thank you, I'll leave that to some looney in a Colin Archer!

Don't let yourselves be brainwashed, designs do change otherwise why bother having designers, you could just take a couple of oldie designs and scale them up or down to suit. I wish I had seen the light sooner.

Robin

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[Chris_Robb]

OK - so when do I try it! I do understand that the sailing qualities are good - my uncle has a Benteau 47.7 which is a lot of fun to sail.



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[Mr Cassandra]

Hmm Alan
Could you not have used Skoda vs Merc as an analogy? bit below the belt Lada indeed!!
Now come on you have to admit Jen/Bens /Bavs have succeded in giving, what the people want ,at the price they can afford and the Swedish designers are coming to terms with it by changing their style to the lighter faster french style
Cheers .bob t


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[Innes_Ker]

If Novice would care to contact me privately I would like to hear the full story so as to sort out the unhelpful dealer.


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[Innes_Ker]

If you could contact me privately I will see if we can get your friend sorted.

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[Innes_Ker]

If you could contact me privately I will see if we can get your friend sorted.

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[Robin]

Ken

Notwithstanding the fact that the Sunsail Jennies are fitted out to Sunsails price requirements (and I think called Sunsail 36s?), probably like Fords are at Hertz Rent A Car:-

The reef lines IMO should go round the boom and tie back on themselves not rely on a slide in an alloy track.

Bashing upwind whilst running the engine with the water intake coming out of the water suggests that you were motor sailing with the headsail and main both in use, this is not at all advisable IMO especially as on some engines the heel results in oil starvation (I had a Bukh 10hp that did it on an Elizabethan 30). If you must motor I think it is time to get rid of the genoa, though if there is good wind then just sail. I would venture to suggest that without the engine assistance, you would have sailed a bit more off the wind/waves, a bit slower so much less slamming and probably less havoc down below. I would also suggest that whilst the Sunsail boat's sails were fairly bulletproof in strength they were very much built down to a price and pretty stretchy/baggy for serious upwind work. That is a feature of most production boat sails I fear, made even worse if it is in mast mainsail reefing.

I cannot think why they would want to use rising butt hinges - do Sunsail charterers get locked in the loos? The light fittings I guess are like all such, a push fit in the mounting hole, not an excuse just an explanation!

By way of comparison, a friend's Malo was damaged on its mooring on a rough night when the bow roller (very thin sideplate) broke allowing the mooring strop to whiplash around ripping off bits of rubbing strake etc. He replaced it with a 'proper job' but that was corner cutting in my book not justified by the price tag. Another friend has a 4 year old Moody with leaky cockpit lockers and leaky windows, been like that from new despite best efforts etc..

I tend to agree about the designs though, it is a shame they stopped using the big name designers (Doug Peterson, Tony Castro et al) like they did in the '80s, maybe that was a cost thing? Certainly many of the boats of our vintage were based on succesful long distance racers so had to perform in all weathers. Ours is a Doug Peterson one and I rate him highly that is for sure but I believe he has just designed the Bavaria 38!!!!

Robin



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[AlanPound]

"Could you not have used Skoda vs Merc as an analogy? bit below the belt Lada indeed!!"

... sorry - I wanted a very clear comparison - though in all honesty, I wouldn't say that the same scale of difference applied wrt the boats we are discussing...

"Now come on you have to admit Jen/Bens /Bavs have succeded in giving, what the people want, at the price they can afford"

... Oh they have the measure of a particular market segment, absolutely!

"and the Swedish designers are coming to terms with it by changing their style to the lighter faster french style"

... well, it seems that the HR37 is identical in displacement to the old HR36 at 7500kg, whilst only 1cm longer overall (they have stretched the waterline though, which is probably a smarter move than adding 'go-faster' stripes...)

... so faster, Yes. Lighter, No. And HR seem to be able to sell all they can make, currently with about an 18 month waiting list. So they also seem to have got the measure of a certain market segment - their boats seem to keep their value well, too...

Regards, Alan

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[Robin]

All things are possible in the spring, we come out of the water tomorrow morning for the annual spit and polish! I don't know that Benny, but I like the look of the First 40.7 and it may be similar, and of the older ones I always liked the First 38.

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[Chris_Robb]

we are out on Saturday - spent loads of time taking clutter off for selling - cleaning every single nook and cranny! see what you think of the web site
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.myboatdetails.com/corsair>http://www.myboatdetails.com/corsair</A> all comments gratefully received!

Chris




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[Mr Cassandra]

I will have to concur they have the measure of certain market segment.
But in the part of the world that most of the people on this forum want to sail or retire to ,IMo the Med ,the Swedish style of boat if a little to cramped down below, under ventilated and dark .They also don`t carry enough sail for the light winds that we have here. Although the new Rassy has increased her sailplan .
All the best, nice crossing swords .
bob t


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[Robin]

I've just been trying to find all the stuff I need for the morning - cannot find half of it and the roof rack doesn't fit the rails on the new car (same model as the old one) and the ladder which should take apart won't and SWMBO has done something with my rubber gloves!

Saw your website and the updated piccies, very nice too. We have one of those called Torsaval (I think) out of the water at the club though I don't know the owners, looks very nice too.

We moved boats with them in adjacent berths, it only took 3 full weekends and umpteen evenings, if we had to do it via home it would have caused a divorce I think!

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[Twister_Ken]

Robin, why don't you get off that high horse before you fall off. I was there, you weren't. I could have sailed lower if I'd wanted to pile into the shore or spend another hour at sea being smashed around, while my daughter was sobbing her heart out because she was convinced the bloody boat was going to sink. And the reason for the engine assisstance was to cancel out some of the truly impressive leeway. And I could have motored dead upwind but that would have slowed us right down, and risked destroying something down below. The reason for the rising butt hinges is that the boat was described as a 'convertible', with the option of rearranging the forepeak somehow.

I know you own a Jenny, but it is from an earlier generation, which I'm sure were better designed and probably better built than the mid-late 90's caravans.

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[Robin]

Sorry Ken, I hadn\'t realised....

... that the forums were for you to express your views and yours alone. If you don't want a response in future may I suggest you simply say so in your post and the rest of us will simply accept the word of God as the only true word.

There is nothing that contentious is there in what I said? Load any boat up with a baggy reefed main, headsail still up, engine running (hard too by the sound of it), boat heeling enough to lift the engine intake out of the water long enough to set off the overheat alarm and you have all the right ingredients for some pretty heavy slamming going to windward into short steep seas IMO. Small wonder then the crew took fright and things fell about down below. Hands up please anyone who thinks that is not true?

My high horse by the way only comes out of the stable to respond to the one sided views of the closed minded especially if they hunt in packs.

There are a great many old and traditional designs which are good and some really excellent ones out there that really deserve to be timeless BUT they are not the only way of doing things. Otherwise we would all be sailing grp Noah's Arcs and the likes of Holland, Thomas, Frers, Castro, Peterson and many others could have gone into knitting bobblehats for old gaffers instead of into modern yacht design. Same with builders, some make a few boats per year expensively, others make hundreds more cheaply. The trick is to stay in business and there are quite a few that didn't make it into the 21st century, some quite famous ones too.

You once said I seem to remember that you can criticise a man's wife but not his boat. That would be a good philosophy for the forums, recognising that everything is inevitably a compromise and cats get skinned in various ways.

Truce or pisstools at dawn?

LOL Robin :0)


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[Sailfree]

It appears the aftersails service fell far short of what should be expected. What dealer did they buy the leaking boat from. (PM me if you don't want to broadcast the name) I don't like the standard of current production boats w.r.t. build quality but it will need the introduction of a Japanese boat builder in a similar way to the motorcycle and car industries to raise the current poor quality of the boat industry. Until then I accept what is available but hope to buy from a dealer that will fulfil his obligations - even if the dealer has to fix problems that shouldn't be there in the first place

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[Sailfree]

I have noticed a lot of postings praising the sailing qualities of older Jeanneau. Why are the newer ones not as good? Is it that they (and other AWB's manufacturers) have pushed the design trend to even greater internal volumn and hence beam. Or is this just "it was better in the old days?"

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[Mr Cassandra]

Hi Roger.
Sorry about the delay had to work today "Can`t see it catching on !"
I do not know if the newer boats are not as good. things are done to a price that people can afford When I went to SBS i had a good look at the S/O 49 and was a little disapointed with a few small things ,ie sole plate looked flimsy and rocked, on my older Magic all the of the sole plates are edged in solid teak and felt stronger , doors on mine are solid wood ,new ones are veneered ply. But then does it matter?I have ordered a new Beneteau 57 as a liveboard ,as in my opinion its space that I am more interested in, than fancy name on a cramped boat at double the price . And as Robin stated I will not be sailing around the Horn.


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[domlee]

From N. Ireland I wanted to buy a Jeanneau Sun Odyessy a few years back. Dealer in Scotland would not move a cent on list price. Dealer in Republic of Ireland did not even want to quote me a price (at this time sterling was much higher than the punt) - even suggesting I go to the dealer in Scotland! I eventually sourced the vessel from France with similar spec as Scottish sourced vessel at 30% saving (including delivery to N Ireland).... Like the car trade until very recently, there seems to be some evidence of price fixing due to the lack of competition (French dealers please note - you are missing a lucrative market). Moving to inland waterways and am now looking at the Macgregor 26M. Price in USA 25000 dollars - fully speced (£13 700 at current exchange rates) Price in UK for similar spec - £25000 - now tell me AM I MISSING SOMETHING?

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[domlee]

From N. Ireland I wanted to buy a Jeanneau Sun Odyessy a few years back. Dealer in Scotland would not move a cent on list price. Dealer in Republic of Ireland did not even want to quote me a price (at this time sterling was much higher than the punt) - even suggesting I go to the dealer in Scotland! I eventually sourced the vessel from France with similar spec as Scottish sourced vessel at 30% saving (including delivery to N Ireland).... Like the car trade until very recently, there seems to be some evidence of price fixing due to the lack of competition (French dealers please note - you are missing a lucrative market). Moving to inland waterways and am now looking at the Macgregor 26M. Price in USA 25000 dollars - fully speced (£13 700 at current exchange rates) Price in UK for similar spec - £25000

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[Sailfree]

What dealer in France did you go to and what was the position regarding VAT. PM me your reply if you prefer.
Thanks
Roger

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