It's good for RNLI to rescue numpties

[fireball]

 

[DougH]

no wonder this country is going down the pan ...

Rather extreme statement to make.

We just do not agree with you, thats all.

For us Searush is right and you are wrong.

And what makes you think this Country of ours is going down the pan?

 

[fireball]

At least Searush engaged in a discussion about my viewpoint.

This country is economically in difficulties - perhaps you've not seen whats been going on recently?

 

[alant]

Following the recent thread I wish to challenge the self-righteous twaddle that Darwin should rule.



It's good for the RNLI;
They get a practice run, possibly in less challenging conditions
They get the chance to chat to the casualty & educate them
It creates useful publicity & keeps the stats up
The casualty is usually motivated to make some sort of thank you donation

It's good for the casualty;
They get the help they need
They get useful advice to prevent it happening again
There is no requirment to donate, but most do feel obliged

It's good for the rest of us;
One day that numpty could be me, or even you
We are reassured that the system works & will help anyone


Now, tell me why it is in anyway actually "bad"? Yes, people should be better prepared, but this is the real world not an idealised one. I do NOT want compulsory training, insurance, registration or any other expensive "solution" to a problem that doesn't really exist.

Registration doesn't stop the numpties in countries where it has been tried (ask our Oz friends) and probably encourages the "I had a training course, so I am an expert" mindset, which a lot more dangerous than "I'm a novice, I'd better take care".

Charging for rescues isn't helpful & may cost lives, will almost certainly reduce donations & probably won't raise much money either. I mean, the cost of rescues is currently calculated by dividing total costs by total rescues to cover ALL overheads. that makes each rescue bloody expensive & probably beyond the means of over 80% of the people rescued.

I am a great admirer of our RNLI & wish I could afford to donate more than I do. I am also lucky enough to have managed to avoid using their services, err so far anyway! I do not want them charging, or for people to be prevented from sailing unless they have special bits of paper or equipment that may (or may not) be any value whatsoever.

From the reported 'rescues', perhaps compulsary SeaStart menbership would be appropriate!

 

[DougH]

At least Searush engaged in a discussion about my viewpoint.

This country is economically in difficulties - perhaps you've not seen whats been going on recently?

If you had said that the World in general is going down the pan I might have had some sympathy with your comment.

We in the UK have much to be thankful for and very little to grumble about.

The Uk is doing very nicely thank you compared with most other countries.

Why so many people insist on having their own personal DOOM cloud defeats me.

 

[fireball]

Why so many people insist on having their own personal DOOM cloud defeats me.

And why so many with their head in the sand?

This isn't about big massive changes - it's the little bits that all add up ...

 

[DougH]

From the reported 'rescues', perhaps compulsary SeaStart menbership would be appropriate!

As you are aware SeaStart is not available in all parts of the UK, so perhaps the RNLI could exploit this area by bolting a SeaStart service onto their existing stations and charge a commercial rate as the SeaStart Company.

My boat is in Mallorca but I am still a RNLI member and make contributions above the membership fee as I would not like to see the existing serviced changed.

 

[Flying Penguin]

And why so many with their head in the sand?

This isn't about big massive changes - it's the little bits that all add up ...

 

[fireball]

As you are aware SeaStart is not available in all parts of the UK, so perhaps the RNLI could exploit this area by bolting a SeaStart service onto their existing stations and charge a commercial rate as the SeaStart Company.

My boat is in Mallorca but I am still a RNLI member and make contributions above the membership fee as I would not like to see the existing serviced changed.

I also contribute to the RNLI and wouldn't wish to see a change in their terms of service - however, I think there is a certain level of "abuse" of the service - which may be more apparent around the solent area - that I feel could be addressed so the RNLI can remain primarily a Rescue Service and not be dragged into the marine equivalent of the AA/RAC Get me Home service....

 

[colingr]

It could just be a case of numbers - but more likely also linked to the accessibility of the solent - both in terms of land transport to/from as well as the number of facilities in a relatively confined and sheltered area.

In the ~30Nm stretch from Selsey to Yarmouth we have 10 lifeboat stations (not all RNLI):
Selsey Lifeboat
Hayling Island Inshore
Bembridge Lifeboat
Portsmouth Lifeboat
Gosport Gafirs
Cowes Lifeboat
Calshot Lifeboat
Hamble Lifeboat
Yarmouth Lifeboat
Lymington Lifeboat

and round the corner there is Freshwater Bay and not too far on we have Mudeford, Swanage & Poole whilst the otherway there is Littlehampton then Shoreham ...

The concentration of services within the Solent area gives some indication of the current requirement and perhaps in some cases, dependency on "rescue services" in this area.

Not forgetting Ryde inshore guys

 

[fireball]

Not forgetting Ryde inshore guys

I do apologise ... blimey - that's 11 ..

Any others I've forgotten?

 

[alahol2]

I do apologise ... blimey - that's 11 ..

Any others I've forgotten?

Are the Venturers still in existence? Their boat used to be at the entrance to the Beaulieu River I believe.

 

[fireball]

Are the Venturers still in existence? Their boat used to be at the entrance to the Beaulieu River I believe.

Big yellow/orange rib ? never really heard it out ... but then we're based at the other end ...

 

[alahol2]

Venturers seem to be out most weekends during the season though they don't often get tasked by Solent Coastguard.

 

[saltylegs]

Following the recent thread I wish to challenge the self-righteous twaddle that Darwin should rule.



It's good for the RNLI;
They get a practice run, possibly in less challenging conditions
They get the chance to chat to the casualty & educate them
It creates useful publicity & keeps the stats up
The casualty is usually motivated to make some sort of thank you donation

It's good for the casualty;
They get the help they need
They get useful advice to prevent it happening again
There is no requirment to donate, but most do feel obliged

It's good for the rest of us;
One day that numpty could be me, or even you
We are reassured that the system works & will help anyone


Now, tell me why it is in anyway actually "bad"? Yes, people should be better prepared, but this is the real world not an idealised one. I do NOT want compulsory training, insurance, registration or any other expensive "solution" to a problem that doesn't really exist.

Registration doesn't stop the numpties in countries where it has been tried (ask our Oz friends) and probably encourages the "I had a training course, so I am an expert" mindset, which a lot more dangerous than "I'm a novice, I'd better take care".

Charging for rescues isn't helpful & may cost lives, will almost certainly reduce donations & probably won't raise much money either. I mean, the cost of rescues is currently calculated by dividing total costs by total rescues to cover ALL overheads. that makes each rescue bloody expensive & probably beyond the means of over 80% of the people rescued.

I am a great admirer of our RNLI & wish I could afford to donate more than I do. I am also lucky enough to have managed to avoid using their services, err so far anyway! I do not want them charging, or for people to be prevented from sailing unless they have special bits of paper or equipment that may (or may not) be any value whatsoever.

I am an ex RNLI crew member and totaly agree witth above.

 

[alant]

As you are aware SeaStart is not available in all parts of the UK, so perhaps the RNLI could exploit this area by bolting a SeaStart service onto their existing stations and charge a commercial rate as the SeaStart Company.

My boat is in Mallorca but I am still a RNLI member and make contributions above the membership fee as I would not like to see the existing serviced changed.

Covers a high proportion of those 'rescue' areas dealt with by RNLI.

http://www.seastart.co.uk/membership-information/areas-covered-by-seastart.html

 

[Old Dog]

Some interesting responses thanks, perhaps it is the CG escalating calls - I can understand them feeling threatened in the current environment. Perhaps they are trying to demonstrate how valuable they are to their political masters. Thank Heaven the RNLI have never had political masters!

TBH, I don't think there are that many trivial rescues (especiially away from the Solent). Is it something about Southerners? Why does the Solent suffer so badly from this issue? Is it simple a matter of numbers, ir is there more to it?

Fireball said "Getting distressed at the slightest mishap"

Maybe such people need more support & encouragement - perhaps from fellow boaters first of all. Most novices where I have sailed have had locals chat to them & advise them, it happens all the time "oop North" (ie anywhere other than the South Coast). Such informal support is worth its weight in gold - Does it not happen on the Solent? Are boaters so selfish that they won't look out for each other, especially those in little boats or with limited experience?

Searush, intersting first comment as apparently the incident off Dover started with a Pan Pan?

As for the Solent mainly just numbers, a summer weekend here has to be seen (and heard on Ch 16/67) to be beleived.

But that said we do look after each other and I have provided 2 tows in the last 12 months, great exercise for the students I had.

 

[marklucas]

Covers a high proportion of those 'rescue' areas dealt with by RNLI.

http://www.seastart.co.uk/membership-information/areas-covered-by-seastart.html

Just look at this - a day in the life of ...

This is all pretty much what any competent mariner should be able to rectify themselves. I have lost count of the number of RAC / AA vans I see simply changing a wheel - perhaps Mr. Gove could add this to his list of life skills.

 

[fireball]

Just look at this - a day in the life of ...

This is all pretty much what any competent mariner should be able to rectify themselves. I have lost count of the number of RAC / AA vans I see simply changing a wheel - perhaps Mr. Gove could add this to his list of life skills.

Blimey ... Thats a mixture of issues in that lot ...
However - that's what they pay Seastart for - as a waterbourne engineer/tow service ...

Quite a number of those are 'at home' breakdowns ... and fortunately the CG wouldn't entertain an emergency call for these - but there are still quite a few underway where they'd only lost convenience ...

I took a 2 engine powerboat out last year - running down southampton water the alarm sounded and the oil light went on ... quickly established it was the port engine so shut that one down and came back to berth on the starboard engine ... am I a highly experienced mobo skipper? No ... never taken a boat out like that before - there are those on here who would've diagnosed and fixed the problem on the water (although it would've been a temporary fix) - but I did what was needed to get the boat to safety - would that engine failure warrant an urgency call? No way - I had one engine and could proceed at 5-6kts - so navigate out of the main channel and pootle back up at a more sedate pace ...
What would the RNLI attending have achieved? It would've tied up a resource that could've been needed for a more urgent incident. Of course, it also uses time/money of that resource - but we've already heard that they're happy to give that.

All I want is for skippers to be a little more aware of how self sufficient they could be - unless you're in immediate danger then a little troubleshooting can go a long way - one day you'll be somewhere where there is no rescue service and you'll have to rely on your own abilities to get out of the "mess".
Meanwhile, I'm quite happy for the RNLI to carry on the way they do now... fortunately it's not down to them to judge whether or not to rescue a numpty ...

 

[FishyInverness]

I took a 2 engine powerboat out last year - running down southampton water the alarm sounded and the oil light went on ... quickly established it was the port engine so shut that one down and came back to berth on the starboard engine ... am I a highly experienced mobo skipper? No ... never taken a boat out like that before - there are those on here who would've diagnosed and fixed the problem on the water (although it would've been a temporary fix) - but I did what was needed to get the boat to safety - would that engine failure warrant an urgency call? No way - I had one engine and could proceed at 5-6kts - so navigate out of the main channel and pootle back up at a more sedate pace ...
What would the RNLI attending have achieved? It would've tied up a resource that could've been needed for a more urgent incident. Of course, it also uses time/money of that resource - but we've already heard that they're happy to give that.

All I want is for skippers to be a little more aware of how self sufficient they could be - unless you're in immediate danger then a little troubleshooting can go a long way - one day you'll be somewhere where there is no rescue service and you'll have to rely on your own abilities to get out of the "mess".
Meanwhile, I'm quite happy for the RNLI to carry on the way they do now... fortunately it's not down to them to judge whether or not to rescue a numpty ...

+1

Sadly though, a vast majority of people don't think in this way, there is a growing complacency on emergency services reliance.

Having previously been an ambulance controller I was speechless at the number of 999 calls made on a Friday or Saturday night because "they've fallen over and twisted their ankle, get me a f***ing ambulance now!!!!" and very similar themes. A taxi to the hospital doesn't figure because that costs money and it's hard to get one that's not already busy (despite taxis outnumbering ambulances by around 100:1) Sadly the professionals were no better, discharge nurses calling the control room to tell us "so and so is ready to go home now, send an ambulance to get them", when informed that this is not an emergency and why can't the patient take a taxi rather than the two emergency vehicles which is all we had to cover a 40 mile radius the response 9 times out of 10 was: "well, who's going to pay for that? They came in by ambulance!"

I agree with most of Searush's points, but I also think that there needs to be a balance in all the emergency services, including the RNLI - where innapropriate use becomes chargeable, because it stops complacency and also the increasing number of people who would blatantly take the p*ss and never even dream of contributing to the service they selfishly rely on.