It's good for RNLI to rescue numpties

[Searush]

Following the recent thread I wish to challenge the self-righteous twaddle that Darwin should rule.



It's good for the RNLI;
They get a practice run, possibly in less challenging conditions
They get the chance to chat to the casualty & educate them
It creates useful publicity & keeps the stats up
The casualty is usually motivated to make some sort of thank you donation

It's good for the casualty;
They get the help they need
They get useful advice to prevent it happening again
There is no requirment to donate, but most do feel obliged

It's good for the rest of us;
One day that numpty could be me, or even you
We are reassured that the system works & will help anyone


Now, tell me why it is in anyway actually "bad"? Yes, people should be better prepared, but this is the real world not an idealised one. I do NOT want compulsory training, insurance, registration or any other expensive "solution" to a problem that doesn't really exist.

Registration doesn't stop the numpties in countries where it has been tried (ask our Oz friends) and probably encourages the "I had a training course, so I am an expert" mindset, which a lot more dangerous than "I'm a novice, I'd better take care".

Charging for rescues isn't helpful & may cost lives, will almost certainly reduce donations & probably won't raise much money either. I mean, the cost of rescues is currently calculated by dividing total costs by total rescues to cover ALL overheads. that makes each rescue bloody expensive & probably beyond the means of over 80% of the people rescued.

I am a great admirer of our RNLI & wish I could afford to donate more than I do. I am also lucky enough to have managed to avoid using their services, err so far anyway! I do not want them charging, or for people to be prevented from sailing unless they have special bits of paper or equipment that may (or may not) be any value whatsoever.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

AMEN!

Nothing else to say!

 

[ChattingLil]

+1 (everything you say and as a numpty user very grateful for it)

 

[Flying Penguin]

+1 Absolutely right.

 

[Kukri]

Absolutely right.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Now, tell me why it is in anyway actually "bad"?

What about the RNLI's carbon footprint and fuel bill? Those big blue and orange boats don't sip at the fossil fuel like a 10 horse Yanmar. Now, if they were to run on biodiesel from the harbour chippy...

 

[fireball]

Following the recent thread I wish to challenge the self-righteous twaddle that Darwin should rule.

The thread has nothing to do with allowing ppl to die through their own stupidity ... Darwin doesn't come into it.

It's an intended criticism of those that get distressed at the slightest mishap.

It's good for the RNLI;
They get a practice run, possibly in less challenging conditions
They get the chance to chat to the casualty & educate them
It creates useful publicity & keeps the stats up
The casualty is usually motivated to make some sort of thank you donation

It's good for the casualty;
They get the help they need
They get useful advice to prevent it happening again
There is no requirment to donate, but most do feel obliged

It's good for the rest of us;
One day that numpty could be me, or even you
We are reassured that the system works & will help anyone

Yes - sometimes it's good training - but how much benign towing do you need? I tow the odd boat and I could probably do with a bit more practice - but every weekend?
Should the RNLI be aiming their resources at education - it's a useful byproduct, but not a primary reason to "rescue" someone.
It can create publicity - I question as to whether it is all "useful"
The casualty may feel shamed into making a donation - not a bad thing I think - yes, they'll learn from it ... but in many instances they should've already known how to get out of their situation without outside assistance.

Now, tell me why it is in anyway actually "bad"? Yes, people should be better prepared, but this is the real world not an idealised one. I do NOT want compulsory training, insurance, registration or any other expensive "solution" to a problem that doesn't really exist.

There is already a lot of training available - on a voluntary basis (ie you don't have to take it - but you pay for it one way or another!) - IMHO if more ppl received this training then they wouldn't need the services of the RNLI given a trivial mishap.

Registration doesn't stop the numpties in countries where it has been tried (ask our Oz friends) and probably encourages the "I had a training course, so I am an expert" mindset, which a lot more dangerous than "I'm a novice, I'd better take care".

Quite agree! And perhaps a change to the mindset of the RYA courses so that some of those certified don't come away with the feeling of invincibility ..
The RYA courses are a grounding and give a base to learn more through experience ...

Charging for rescues isn't helpful & may cost lives, will almost certainly reduce donations & probably won't raise much money either. I mean, the cost of rescues is currently calculated by dividing total costs by total rescues to cover ALL overheads. that makes each rescue bloody expensive & probably beyond the means of over 80% of the people rescued.

I am a great admirer of our RNLI & wish I could afford to donate more than I do. I am also lucky enough to have managed to avoid using their services, err so far anyway! I do not want them charging, or for people to be prevented from sailing unless they have special bits of paper or equipment that may (or may not) be any value whatsoever.

Quite agree ...

You said you don't want compulsory training, insurance or registration - but in my view that is the way we will head unless we can control the number of unnecessary callouts...

 

[ianfr]

I, like many others I am sure, have heard "Certified" sailors talking complete rubbish.

Many of the best sailors I have met or heard of don't have any formal qualifications.

All power to the RNLI and especially the guys/gals at the sharp end.

There does appear to be a mindset though that says "I am in a sailing boat and the engine has failed therefore I am in imminent danger"

This may be true is some cases, but how many I wonder are in the "Must get home for Big Brother tonight" or similar category?

Regards

Ian

 

[wklein]

Alot of the people i have met have been talked into taking a tow by the coastguard when merely reporting difficulties (which is very sensible). I would not look upon anyone who needed help, yes we should all strive to be self sufficient but not at the cost of excluding people from our sport.

 

[Flapjack]

+1 If you introduce a financial element to the decision to call for help someone will ending up dying when they didn't have to

 

[Searush]

Some interesting responses thanks, perhaps it is the CG escalating calls - I can understand them feeling threatened in the current environment. Perhaps they are trying to demonstrate how valuable they are to their political masters. Thank Heaven the RNLI have never had political masters!

TBH, I don't think there are that many trivial rescues (especiially away from the Solent). Is it something about Southerners? Why does the Solent suffer so badly from this issue? Is it simple a matter of numbers, ir is there more to it?

Fireball said "Getting distressed at the slightest mishap"

Maybe such people need more support & encouragement - perhaps from fellow boaters first of all. Most novices where I have sailed have had locals chat to them & advise them, it happens all the time "oop North" (ie anywhere other than the South Coast). Such informal support is worth its weight in gold - Does it not happen on the Solent? Are boaters so selfish that they won't look out for each other, especially those in little boats or with limited experience?

 

[pendlecats]

OP+1 100%

I would add that being a life long supporter (donating and membership) of the RNLI, as was my Grandfather who was just simply the best sailor I ever met (with no quals) - and I mean that - I have never thought my donation has ever been wasted on any call.

Even knowing the odd call would be simple (in some eyes unnecessary), it also looks great fun to launch and power off to the rescue, however the main reason It doesn't worry me, is that they are there, and will give so much in themselves to see us safe. that is why I will continue to donate no matter what the calls consist of.

 

[fireball]

TBH, I don't think there are that many trivial rescues (especiially away from the Solent). Is it something about Southerners? Why does the Solent suffer so badly from this issue? Is it simple a matter of numbers, ir is there more to it?

It could just be a case of numbers - but more likely also linked to the accessibility of the solent - both in terms of land transport to/from as well as the number of facilities in a relatively confined and sheltered area.

In the ~30Nm stretch from Selsey to Yarmouth we have 10 lifeboat stations (not all RNLI):
Selsey Lifeboat
Hayling Island Inshore
Bembridge Lifeboat
Portsmouth Lifeboat
Gosport Gafirs
Cowes Lifeboat
Calshot Lifeboat
Hamble Lifeboat
Yarmouth Lifeboat
Lymington Lifeboat

and round the corner there is Freshwater Bay and not too far on we have Mudeford, Swanage & Poole whilst the otherway there is Littlehampton then Shoreham ...

The concentration of services within the Solent area gives some indication of the current requirement and perhaps in some cases, dependency on "rescue services" in this area.

 

[onesea]

What about the RNLI's carbon footprint and fuel bill? Those big blue and orange boats don't sip at the fossil fuel like a 10 horse Yanmar. Now, if they were to run on biodiesel from the harbour chippy...

If you do not want a carbon foot print don't go sailing... Boats have carbon foot prints and they are for pleasure...

Alot of the people i have met have been talked into taking a tow by the coastguard when merely reporting difficulties (which is very sensible). I would not look upon anyone who needed help, yes we should all strive to be self sufficient but not at the cost of excluding people from our sport.

As a friend of mine had to point out the coastguard, when they called her (a parent had to the coastguard after she had phoned to check if had any more fuel filters onboard, or did she have to clean this one). Finally having a bad day she pointed out "its blowing a F6 I am in a sailing boat the engine is not working what's the fin problem?"

They agreed not to call the lifeboat as long as she reported in every hour...

 

[fireball]

OP+1 100%

I would add that being a life long supporter (donating and membership) of the RNLI, as was my Grandfather who was just simply the best sailor I ever met (with no quals) - and I mean that - I have never thought my donation has ever been wasted on any call.

Even knowing the odd call would be simple (in some eyes unnecessary), it also looks great fun to launch and power off to the rescue, however the main reason It doesn't worry me, is that they are there, and will give so much in themselves to see us safe. that is why I will continue to donate no matter what the calls consist of.

Again - I think you're reading the original thread incorrectly - it wasn't about the RNLI going out on shouts - although some did suggest that non-life saving should be charged for I don't believe there is a sensible case for this - it's about the apparent reliance by the not-quite-so-odd number of "sailors" with seemingly trivial issues..... this, in turn trivialises the role of the RNLI.

What it is, is that it is so easy to hit the "panic button" that many do - without even thinking through the other options open to them - sail, anchor, hail a passing vessel, call seastart.

The only criticism I could lay at the door of the RNLI is that sometimes they are perhaps too helpful ...

 

[fireball]

As a friend of mine had to point out the coastguard, when they called her (a parent had to the coastguard after she had phoned to check if had any more fuel filters onboard, or did she have to clean this one). Finally having a bad day she pointed out "its blowing a F6 I am in a sailing boat the engine is not working what's the fin problem?"

They agreed not to call the lifeboat as long as she reported in every hour...

 

[DougH]

Following the recent thread I wish to challenge the self-righteous twaddle that Darwin should rule.



It's good for the RNLI;
They get a practice run, possibly in less challenging conditions
They get the chance to chat to the casualty & educate them
It creates useful publicity & keeps the stats up
The casualty is usually motivated to make some sort of thank you donation

It's good for the casualty;
They get the help they need
They get useful advice to prevent it happening again
There is no requirment to donate, but most do feel obliged

It's good for the rest of us;
One day that numpty could be me, or even you
We are reassured that the system works & will help anyone


Now, tell me why it is in anyway actually "bad"? Yes, people should be better prepared, but this is the real world not an idealised one. I do NOT want compulsory training, insurance, registration or any other expensive "solution" to a problem that doesn't really exist.

Registration doesn't stop the numpties in countries where it has been tried (ask our Oz friends) and probably encourages the "I had a training course, so I am an expert" mindset, which a lot more dangerous than "I'm a novice, I'd better take care".

Charging for rescues isn't helpful & may cost lives, will almost certainly reduce donations & probably won't raise much money either. I mean, the cost of rescues is currently calculated by dividing total costs by total rescues to cover ALL overheads. that makes each rescue bloody expensive & probably beyond the means of over 80% of the people rescued.

I am a great admirer of our RNLI & wish I could afford to donate more than I do. I am also lucky enough to have managed to avoid using their services, err so far anyway! I do not want them charging, or for people to be prevented from sailing unless they have special bits of paper or equipment that may (or may not) be any value whatsoever.

Absolutely spot on Searush, well put, a virtual pint from me.

 

[Fantasie 19]

Following the recent thread I wish to challenge the self-righteous twaddle that Darwin should rule.



It's good for the RNLI;
They get a practice run, possibly in less challenging conditions
They get the chance to chat to the casualty & educate them
It creates useful publicity & keeps the stats up
The casualty is usually motivated to make some sort of thank you donation

It's good for the casualty;
They get the help they need
They get useful advice to prevent it happening again
There is no requirment to donate, but most do feel obliged

It's good for the rest of us;
One day that numpty could be me, or even you
We are reassured that the system works & will help anyone


Now, tell me why it is in anyway actually "bad"? Yes, people should be better prepared, but this is the real world not an idealised one. I do NOT want compulsory training, insurance, registration or any other expensive "solution" to a problem that doesn't really exist.

Registration doesn't stop the numpties in countries where it has been tried (ask our Oz friends) and probably encourages the "I had a training course, so I am an expert" mindset, which a lot more dangerous than "I'm a novice, I'd better take care".

Charging for rescues isn't helpful & may cost lives, will almost certainly reduce donations & probably won't raise much money either. I mean, the cost of rescues is currently calculated by dividing total costs by total rescues to cover ALL overheads. that makes each rescue bloody expensive & probably beyond the means of over 80% of the people rescued.

I am a great admirer of our RNLI & wish I could afford to donate more than I do. I am also lucky enough to have managed to avoid using their services, err so far anyway! I do not want them charging, or for people to be prevented from sailing unless they have special bits of paper or equipment that may (or may not) be any value whatsoever.

Too damned right...

The whole of my sailing life has so far been dedicated to becoming less of a numpty, but I'm still learning..

 

[fireball]

AMEN!

Nothing else to say!

+1 (everything you say and as a numpty user very grateful for it)

+1 Absolutely right.

Absolutely right.

+1 If you introduce a financial element to the decision to call for help someone will ending up dying when they didn't have to

OP+1 100%

I would add that being a life long supporter (donating and membership) of the RNLI, as was my Grandfather who was just simply the best sailor I ever met (with no quals) - and I mean that - I have never thought my donation has ever been wasted on any call.

Even knowing the odd call would be simple (in some eyes unnecessary), it also looks great fun to launch and power off to the rescue, however the main reason It doesn't worry me, is that they are there, and will give so much in themselves to see us safe. that is why I will continue to donate no matter what the calls consist of.

Absolutely spot on Searush, well put, a virtual pint from me.

Too damned right...

The whole of my sailing life has so far been dedicated to becoming less of a numpty, but I'm still learning..

Yet more cases of taking a post at face value without taking into account the context in which the post was made....

no wonder this country is going down the pan ...

oh - along comes a band wagon .... lets just jump on ... woo hoo!

 

[Flying Penguin]

Yet more cases of taking a post at face value without taking into account the context in which the post was made....

no wonder this country is going down the pan ...

oh - along comes a band wagon .... lets just jump on ... woo hoo!

Calm down dear, it's only an internet forum....