Sandy
Well-known member
As you head towards the oggin, that worrying thought crosses your mind just before you lose consciousness, is this set to manual or automatic.
Its a pity they don't make an auto life jacket with selectable override
- Thread starter Adios
- Start date
Adios
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Its funny how time slows down at moments like that, just enough for us to regret the stupid decision. The phenomenon should be called "Doh! time"
bitbaltic
Well-known member
Dunno if I’m spoiling the party at the patents office but all of my Secumar jackets (all auto with a soluble pill mechanism) came with a yellow plastic adapter to lock the cage if required and convert to manual only. Remove the adapter to convert it back.
if you fit the adapter a yellow tab with the words ‘manual only’ is visible in the bottle window.
these jackets were all bought in 2012....
if you fit the adapter a yellow tab with the words ‘manual only’ is visible in the bottle window.
these jackets were all bought in 2012....
Adios
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There goes that exit strategy! Does it protect the pill from getting wet when its in the locked position?
bitbaltic
Well-known member
Dunno, I’ve never fitted it. I would think it just locks the cage so the pill dissolves but doesn’t fire the mechanism. I’m not on the boat now or otherwise I’d fit one and report back.
here’s a link to the jackets: Secumar Ultra AX Plus 150 Lifejacket With Harness, Hood & Light
but anything with secumar’s 4001s mechanism will be able to do it. SECUMATIC 4001S | SECUMAR
grumpy_o_g
Well-known member
I'm not convinced there are any circumstances likely to occur where I would want to disable my lifejacket. I know they do occasionally go off when the wearer isn't actually in the water (mostly the pill type I believe) but it's not exactly a common occurrence.
Adios
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So it totally exists and this thread is bogus! Ah well.
I think in the end the UML solution of a waterproof protective cap that can be put on and which stops the pill getting wet while it stays in place wins. Simple but effective. In fact the whole UML mechanism looks much simpler and smaller than the Secumatic 4001S:
Its playing out the usual difference between british and german engineering minds. The KISS principle, simple is best, doesn't seem so prominent there
Adios
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Secumar talk only of using it for dinghy sailing which we wouldn't think to do in that type of jacket here. The guy who put me onto the UML solution talked about people working waist deep in water, industrial, which I guess explains why we never get offered it at the leisure outlets
bitbaltic
Well-known member
i think Secumar’s main business is in industrial jackets too and maybe that’s the origin of their design filtering through to their leisure jackets (which aren’t that commonly stocked)
Gary Fox
N/A
Exactly
Adios
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And yet there are people who shy away from using automatic ones due to the expectation that they might be in a position where it goes off unintended.
They might be enticed to use an auto (of which we are all likely agreed there are more advantages than disadvantages) if they are offered jackets with the ability to quickly prevent accidental inflation, like the UML £5 pop on cover, if they ever are in that sinking boat where they have to lay in water to plug a hole. Chances are they'll then have an auto and never use the cover which is packed in the jacket. Something for the marketing people to work on perhaps.
Daedelus
Well-known member
Attached is a quote from the Spinlock site featuring a LJ with Hammar hydrostatic release. I think 10cm is about 4".
"
HammarⓇ Hydrostatic Inflator
The HammarⓇ inflation system is activated by water pressure and will not inflate until the cap is approximately 10cm underwater.
This system is designed for use in more extreme conditions and extended offshore sailing.
The benefit of the HammarⓇ system is that the jacket cannot accidentally inflate from being wet with rain and sea spray.
The unit has a single indicator to show if armed
Delayed inflation can be caused if full immersion of the firing head is delayed by buoyant foul weather clothing."
prv
Well-known member
I'm still not convinced that if someone's doing an activity where auto-inflation is a liability, they will want a jacket that can auto-inflate sometimes.
At work we used to have some involvement with a fast semi-enclosed motorboat (no longer with us). Manual jackets were required for that, since an auto would pin you in place if it flipped with you still inside. We didn't faff about with unscrewing cartridges and stuff, though, just kept two manual jackets in the boat.
Going by the size of it, I think it replaces the auto cartridge rather than covers it. Unscrew the cartridge, and fit the blanking cap instead.
Pete
Adios
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I now have one and can confirm that its a pop on cover with an o-ring to keep water out of the capsule, including the upper hole as long as its pushed all the way on! Neat solution and with a string it will hang next to the inflator just in case I ever need it.
SimonFa
Well-known member
I have taken the hydrostatic release out of one of my "crew" lifejackets and use that for safety boat or mark laying duties because I don't want it going off if I'm under a rib or in a last resort situation where I need to be in the water to rescue someone* - something I'm really of conscious when doing sailability safety boats.
When I'm sailing and have crew who need a lifejacket I can quickly pop the hydrostatic release back on - its often a good teaching point anyway if they haven't sailed before or seen the inside of an LJ.
Strictly speaking it should have a yellow (IIRC) toggle, but it has a big "M" on both sides and when in manual mode in my possession.
I can't think of any situation where I'd want to be sailing with a manual LJ.
*Yes, I'm aware I shouldn't get in the water and make a bad situation worse, but that can't cover every eventuality and I'm not prepared to watch anyone drown without at least making an effort.
When I'm sailing and have crew who need a lifejacket I can quickly pop the hydrostatic release back on - its often a good teaching point anyway if they haven't sailed before or seen the inside of an LJ.
Strictly speaking it should have a yellow (IIRC) toggle, but it has a big "M" on both sides and when in manual mode in my possession.
I can't think of any situation where I'd want to be sailing with a manual LJ.
*Yes, I'm aware I shouldn't get in the water and make a bad situation worse, but that can't cover every eventuality and I'm not prepared to watch anyone drown without at least making an effort.
Stemar
Well-known member
I can, in fact I can think of a few, but my risk assessment is that the ones where an automatic inflation is likely to save my life are far more probable than the ones where it would add to the danger. When I did safety boat with a possibility I'd have to go in the water, I'd use a dinghy buoyancy aid.
Having thought about it some more, I wouldn't want a way of turning off the auto-inflate because, again, a personal risk assessment, the likelihood of the LJ not inflating when I really need it to seems to me significantly higher then the likelihood of it going off when it's dangerous. ISTM that the most likely unwanted inflation is it getting wet in the dinghy, which presents no danger, just a cost but, hey, I've just tested my LJ and I know it works!
Adios
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Something worth bearing in mind with this is if a LJ goes off too early in a drama its easy to temporarily deflate it, do whats needed where inflated is a problem then blow it up again by mouth with the top up tube. Its only a couple of lungs full to fill it.
dom
Well-known member
Bilgediver
Well-known member
The web page is not terribly clear and you asked for something which gives both options at the same time. To use that sealing cap you have to remove the capsule as the sealing cap uses the same thread as the capsule to seal in the gas. This means that with the sealing cap in use your life jacket is manual only till you swap back the capsule.
Adios
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no it slips over the capsule so you don't have to remove it.
I also found this interesting statement from the RNLI "All lifejackets are classed as manual" some with an automatic device. I guess if thats the case there is no legal repercussion for having an out of date cartridge as that doesn't stop the manual inflation still working and the gas cylinder is not a time expiring item.