Island Packet-are they worth it?

[rotrax]

As ever it makes sense to consider what the alternatives are for similar prices. Not sure what the price premium for Island Packets are, but for a serious cruiser for a bit more dosh I would want to compare with Najad, HR, X-Cruising etc (which are lovely and tend to sail well as we’ll as being seaworthy - and easier on the eye, at least to me)

Not sure there is a significant Premium on IP's compared to the examples you quote.

Going back to the performance bit, IP'S were always advertised specificaly as a CRUISING yacht, and cruised by a mature couple in most cases!

Little mention has been made of one of their main features. Bob Johnson realised that many potential customers would want to enjoy his designs, but may not want to experience challenging conditions at sea. The USA has the ICW, a 2000 mile plus virtually inland waterway. He ensured that his designs would be shallow draught enough and the rigs short enough to pass the bridges that dont lift on this stretch of water.

Our 12 Metre Motor Sailer only draws 1.1 metres. We can enter tidaly constained harbours and Marinas so much earlier than a 2 metre draught yacht. Anchoring is possible in areas deep keel yachts avoid.

This, and the 1.3 Metres draught of our previous IP 350 has proved to be a real advantage.

One of the " Nice to haves " that our choice provided...............................

 

[JumbleDuck]

To JumbleDuck-our IP is not pink!

Because I am misinterpreting the colour or because they make them in other shades?

 

[Greg2]

Because I am misinterpreting the colour or because they make them in other shades?

Not sure where you get pink from?

 

[rotrax]

Because I am misinterpreting the colour or because they make them in other shades?

I think you must be misinterpreting-or your computer is-the colour.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Not sure where you get pink from?

I think you must be misinterpreting-or your computer is-the colour.

Every picture of an IP have seen has shown a slightly pinky-yellow off-white hull. A bit like you'd see with a white hull lit by the setting sun. In every other respect I think they look great, but that colour would put me off.

 

[ip485]

I think you will find the colour is more cream or magnolia, but no doubt reflects the evening sun to give a pink tinge sometimes. It is a slightly odd colour choice, but strangely you sometimes feel you have had enough of all white boats - they all look the same and sometimes the IP not gleaming in exactly the same slightly brash way is a pleasant change.

It is a good point about the draft. The 485 draws 5.25 feet. It is surprising what a huge difference that makes compared with most fin keels. There are so many more places you can creep into, in a surprisingly large boat.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I think you will find the colour is more cream or magnolia, but no doubt reflects the evening sun to give a pink tinge sometimes. It is a slightly odd colour choice, but strangely you sometimes feel you have had enough of all white boats - they all look the same and sometimes the IP not gleaming in exactly the same slightly brash way is a pleasant change.

I agree completely about the boringness of white boats - my own is cream. The IP colour ain't my taste, but wouldn't it be tedious if we all liked the same things?

 

[rotrax]

I agree completely about the boringness of white boats - my own is cream. The IP colour ain't my taste, but wouldn't it be tedious if we all liked the same things?

Home built steel boats perhaps?

 

[ip485]

I can add a comment or two on the deck, at least so far as concerns the 485.

The side deck is wide, and it is very easy to walk along the length of the side deck. If there is one minor quibble, where the shrouds meet the toe rail you need to swing your body around the wire slightly so to speak, but you get accustom to it very quickly. The rest of the deck area is uncluttered and a pleasure to work on.

As Rotrax comments, in reality you send very little time going forward. The whole point of the arrangement and systems is that the rig is very easily handled by one (or two). The winches are electric and powerful, and with excellent in mast furling absolutely everything can be handled from the cockpit with minimium of fuss. I am very happy with the 485 single handed, which is fair going with a 55 foot boat.

For me one of the huge attractions of the 485 is the aft lazarette. I find so many boats have little storage, which is fine until you spend more time on board. The aft lazarette is substantial. You can put all your gear in , and then some - a couple of folding bikes, water maker, compressor, outboard, scuba tanks etc.

and of course the advantage of any long keeler is the added storage space in side. There is lots of room beneath the sole which translates into numerous storage "bins" and space for large tanks - the 485 carries 360 gallons of water, 300 gallons of diesel, and grey water, which translates into a very long motoring range (to compensate for the lack of speed ! ) - no seriously 2,500 miles under engine or so, and there are times that ability is not to be sniffed at.

 

[rotrax]

Every picture of an IP have seen has shown a slightly pinky-yellow off-white hull. A bit like you'd see with a white hull lit by the setting sun. In every other respect I think they look great, but that colour would put me off.

To avoid confusion First Mate always tells visitors to " Look for the Custard Cream boat-thats us! "

Our American friends perhaps wont know what we are on about. I'm not sure if they have Custard Cream Biscuits over there?

Both our IP's have been a magnolia/cream colour. We did see a Dutch flagged 380 in Falmouth that had a different tinge to it, but dont recall pink. IIRC it was just darker. I think the boats name was "Brack"

To get back to the OP regarding prices. It is the selling price, not the asking price that is important. When we had a serious "Senior Moment" and offered on our IP 350 it cleaned us out. Six years and 8,000 NMs later we got our money back. Of course, taking what we had spent on up to date nav kit and annual maintenance and a new sail we were behind, but every boat costs to keep. As one pundit stated "Going Sailing is always going to cost more than long walks in the country" Boy, was he right!

IP's keep well. Some friends have the first one-an IP27-sold by an official UK agent. It is close to 30 years old and is immaculate-a real credit to its owners. We had a similar age GibSea 96 in good nick, but no comparison to the way the IP 27 had survived. The internal finish was of much inferior quality by comparison and the gelcoat had lost its depth and gloss despite pro polishing.

Like I stated in an earlier post " You pays yer money and takes yer choice! "

 

[rostyvyg]

I own an IP420 (aft cockpit) and can attest that side deck is as wide as any other boat I have been on except boats with no coachroofs. Non-skid pattern is excellent. Deck is uncluttered. Sails can be totally controlled from the cockpit. Dream to singlehand. Very sea kindly motion. Shallow draft (5 feet) helps in ICW and around Bahamas. Excellent ventilation: 15 opening portlights and 8 deck hatches. Can carry 160 gallons of fuel and 260 gallons of water. Insane amount of stowage space. I, personally, like the ivory color. Totally worth the price and will outlive me and several more generations judging by built quality.

 

[rotrax]

I own an IP420 (aft cockpit) and can attest that side deck is as wide as any other boat I have been on except boats with no coachroofs. Non-skid pattern is excellent. Deck is uncluttered. Sails can be totally controlled from the cockpit. Dream to singlehand. Very sea kindly motion. Shallow draft (5 feet) helps in ICW and around Bahamas. Excellent ventilation: 15 opening portlights and 8 deck hatches. Can carry 160 gallons of fuel and 260 gallons of water. Insane amount of stowage space. I, personally, like the ivory color. Totally worth the price and will outlive me and several more generations judging by built quality.

What a great description of the colour-it IS very like aged mature ivory. The contrast between the slightly darker non skid and the teak toerails IMHO looks great.

The re-finishing of the teak became a problem for us-too expensive to get the yard to do and neither of us can kneel down to do it anymore. The SP Cruiser we have now has very little teak and, by comparison, is so easy to clean and keep looking as an IP should.

Every thing you say about IP's is correct in my experience-can you comment on sailing performance? Over this side of the pond detractors give performance under sail as a big negative.

I have never found it so except in very light winds, but I am a cruiser, not a racer. Using the Iron Jib has never been a problem for me if the wind will not serve.

 

[jordanbasset]

I always liked the look of the Island packets, loved the colour, they were a little bit different and in my view quite classy looking.
Moored next to quite a big one in Sivota and was impressed with the fit out.
If I wished to go long term cruising it would certainly be on my list to consider

 

[rostyvyg]

Every thing you say about IP's is correct in my experience-can you comment on sailing performance? Over this side of the pond detractors give performance under sail as a big negative.

While older (2 digis) IP's were a bit slow, the new (3 digits) models over 40ft long are pleasure to sail on all points of sail. My IP420 and described earlier in the thread IP485 are latest in line aft and center cockpit models on which every other larger IP has been based. Those are hulls tweaked by Bob Johnson to the very best based on his previous long experience building modern full keel boats. IP440, IP460, IP490 all have almost the same hull and layout as IP420 differing mostly in transom and swim platforms design. All those are reasonably fast sailing vessels, very comfortable to be on and safe in rather scary weather. "Detractors" just don't see many of them in Europe (same as we don't see too many Moodies here in the US). I. personally, witnessed many people who had come to my boat anticipating a slow sail based on Internet rumors and were totally amazed later by the way the boat sliced through water.

 

[rotrax]

While older (2 digis) IP's were a bit slow, the new (3 digits) models over 40ft long are pleasure to sail on all points of sail. My IP420 and described earlier in the thread IP485 are latest in line aft and center cockpit models on which every other larger IP has been based. Those are hulls tweaked by Bob Johnson to the very best based on his previous long experience building modern full keel boats. IP440, IP460, IP490 all have almost the same hull and layout as IP420 differing mostly in transom and swim platforms design. All those are reasonably fast sailing vessels, very comfortable to be on and safe in rather scary weather. "Detractors" just don't see many of them in Europe (same as we don't see too many Moodies here in the US). I. personally, witnessed many people who had come to my boat anticipating a slow sail based on Internet rumors and were totally amazed later by the way the boat sliced through water.

Thanks for that.

The only direct experience I have of the larger models is trying to keep them in sight during our UK Island Packet Owners Association annual rallies where we often hold an informal race. We sailed an IP 350, a little one.

As you say, for a big, fully equiped cruising yacht they are surprisingly quick.

Perhaps your comments might open the detractors eyes a little.

 

[Greg2]

Tough question.

IP 380 sails a bit better in light air then IP370 and has in my opinion better layout: a slightly larger galley with 2 additional feet of counter-top space (IP380 galley is exactly the same as IP420) and a dedicated nav station. It is easier to access IP380 engine for maintenance as well.

What I like about IP370 is it has chain locker access from the deck via a hatch, watertight bulkhead that separates chain locker and it has a dedicated shower stall (a bid selling point to ladies).

On another hand, IP 370 has a fiberglass holding tank and chainplates of new design. An aluminum holding tank of IP380 corrodes at seams and by now must be replaced - $8,000 expense. IP380 chainplates are thinner, made out of 304 stainless steel and their attachment to the hull does not have draining holes, thus it accumulates water and might have facilitate chainplate corrosion. IP 370 has thicker chainplaits made out of 316L stainless steel, also the hull where chainplates have been glassed into has weeping holes.

So, if I were on a market, I would probably buy an IP380, have holding tank and chainplates immediately replaced ($18,000 to address both issues, make sure you have chainplates manufactured from titanium if you are at it ) and have a better boat then IP370 for the same or less amount of money in total. And that would be a boat which could take you to infinity and beyond...

Anyway, I went through deliberations already, currently own an IP420 and can't be happier.

BTW, I am often the only boat out there when the weather turns to be on a breeze side often wondering where have all boy racers gone to wait it out...

Interesting stuff, thanks.

Not many available in the UK and nothing in the asking price between 380 and 370 so sounds like 370 a better option. We liked the layout and whilst I have put looked aboard a 380 from photos I prefer the 370.

 

[Brent Swain]

Every picture of an IP have seen has shown a slightly pinky-yellow off-white hull. A bit like you'd see with a white hull lit by the setting sun. In every other respect I think they look great, but that colour would put me off.

Pictures taken in the morning tend to look blueish. In late afternoon they tend to look orange.

 

[Brent Swain]

There are many happy mediums between a full length keel, and a skinny, tall, high aspect keel. Longish keels with a skeg hung rudder behind them are common, and a well proven compromise.

 

[Brent Swain]

Read posts 2, 6, 9, 15 , 18, 23, 32, and 39.
Not me talking.

 

[rotrax]

Read posts 6, 9, 15 and 18
Not me talking.

Not being contentious here Brent, but what are you trying to say by pointing out these posts?

They all give personal opinions about IP's, which is fine.

But I dont understand how you refering to them as posted by others is relevant to the debate.

Be nice if you could help me out here.