TamarMike
New member
When there is no one in the wheelhouse of the other vessel?
About 0.5 nm SW of Penlee Point on Friday
About 0.5 nm SW of Penlee Point on Friday
Is there any point in standing on...
- Thread starter TamarMike
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D
Deleted member 36384
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Yes, you should stand on until it becomes apparent that the other vessel is not responding in a timely manner at which point you make the adjustment to course to avoid a collision. I treat such instances like defensive driving and usually slowing down is enough to guarantee a safe passing.
TamarMike
New member
Well I've tried loading the photo several different ways and given up now, it's my bed time! I thought it should be easier with the 'new' forum.
There was plenty of time to avoid the trawler but it wasn't even on autopilot but just erratically zig-zagging along with both crew sorting out the nets at the stern as they returned to Plymouth.
There was plenty of time to avoid the trawler but it wasn't even on autopilot but just erratically zig-zagging along with both crew sorting out the nets at the stern as they returned to Plymouth.
onesea
Well-known member
When there is no one in the wheelhouse of the other vessel?
About 0.5 nm SW of Penlee Point on Friday
She is showing Fishing day shape, so absolutely no point whats so ever... You should keep out of her way..
Hmmm assuming you had not noticed the fishing shape... The question has to be why stand on? You can see a boat of fish type (if you have not seen day shape), in later post we hear moving erratically there is no point in standing on into potential danger.
Alter 5 degrees, (for wind shift, to avoid lobster pot or those fishing shapes you think you see) make it clear to them you will let them past who cares. In this case they were they are not even looking. Some boats have no intention of altering, the bullying to make them alter just cause you are "stand on" vessel, if your out for pleasure is it worth it if small ish alteration resolves the problem...
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JumbleDuck
Well-known member
Fishing boats and boats exhibiting the fishing day shape don't have right of way. Vessels engaged in fishing do, which is quite a different matter. If you read through the MAIB reports you'll see several cases of accidents, some serious, in which fishing vessels had nobody at the wheel or keeping a look out.
prv
Well-known member
Your first sentence seems to suggest standing on one's rights.
The last sentence illustrates why this is often not a good idea in the case of fishing boats.
Which do you actually do in practice?
Pete
onesea
Well-known member
I cannot think in the rules where it is for you to decide if fishing boats are engaged in fishing? If they are displaying the shapes they are fishing, that's how the rules work?
As for the standards of watch keeping and correct use of signals on fishing boats (or any other vessel for that matter, as yachties are we that diligent in showing motor sailing cones) that's a totally separate subject.
The correct course of action for the OP if the boat as appears is incorrectly showing day shapes and/ or not keeping proper lookout is to report the boat to the authorities. The rules are there to try and stop people, creating potentially dangerous situations.
As the thread title suggests "Is there any point in standing on..."
For the record I would of probably done similar to the OP and allowed the boat to pass at a close but safe distance, sailing for me is about pleasure..
Lets face it if he is incorrectly showing day-shapes and not keeping a proper lookout he is not likely to be the most diligently in following the rules?
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
Stick to the rulle, dear boy. Stand on if I'm stand on, give way if I'm give way, take action if the give way vessel doesn't. Can you think of a better way?
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
No. It's laid down very clearly in Rule 3:
(d) The term “vessel engaged in fishing” means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict manoeuvrability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manoeuvrability.
You'll notice that it does not say "vessel engaged in fishing means any vessel displaying the lights and marks of a fishing vessel, regardless of what it's actually doing"
There are points of similarity. If you saw a yacht with mainsail only up, heading into wind at 7kts and displaying no cone, would you give way on the grounds that you cannot think in the rules where it is for you to decide whether sailing boats are engaged in sailing?
Agreed, twice.
Tony Cross
Well-known member
Whilst not wishing to turn this into another colregs thread, I think you are wrong here. Rule 26 says (and I'm précising here) "A vessel engaged in trawling (or fishing) shall exhibit....two cones one above the other". Therefore any vessel showing the two cones IS fishing according to the colregs, regardless of what you might think.
A vessel with sails up and no motoring cone IS sailing according to the colregs, regardless of what you might think.
The rules are not open to interpretation.
onesea
Well-known member
Yes its states clearly when a vessel is engaged in fishing and hence the shapes should be shown.
Where in the rules does it say what to do if the vessel is showing inappropriate signals?
If a boat is showing the shapes you should respond as if it is showing the shape. If they are showing the shape they should expect YOU to keep clear in this instance.
They might be doing a type of fishing you have never observed before? (probably unlikely but possible).
Same applies for yachts without cone, maybe they have a new super dooper design that can go to windward at 7 knots in a flat cal on one sail (again probably unlikely but possible)...
Certainly with vessels that are restricted in there ability to maneuver they seem to have more exotic reasons to do strange things than I can imagine.
Either way going round and ignoring day shapes is as good as going round and ignoring the rules IMHO.
TamarMike
New member
There was no real problem for me. I had made an early turn of perhaps 10 degrees to keep clear but its bows seemed to be magnetically attracted towards me so I assumed the had seen me and would pass across my bows- then it swung the other way, then back again so as it closed I made a 30 degree turn to pass at a safe distance, no problem; BUT that approach to Plymouth Sound is often frequented by little boats angling, kayakers etc
jwilson
Well-known member
Can I report all the fishing boats tied up in harbour that are showing "engaged in fishing" symbols - welded to the mast?
To the OP - don't get in the way: they are working hard to earn a living in a tough trade.
onesea
Well-known member
I do not report every one who is doing 5 mph over the speed limit? Every yacht that is motoring without a cone? etc etc
If a particular vessel is particularly difficult/ dangerous consistently, I might ask the local harbor master if he ever receives any complaints? Visibly taking photos often has results, although in open waters to be honest I am not so fussed.
A fishing boat sneaked up on me the other day and rather kindly waited till I passed the other before altering (he may of even altered a touch for me), a friendly wave was exchanged. I agree generally I try and leave commercial vessels to get on with there business.
For me life's to short, sailing is for pleasure.
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lpdsn
New member
+1
If they're showing the two cones they're engaged in fishing and you have to consider them as such, even though everyone knows it isn't always true. However if a couple of the crew were handling the nets then they quite likely really were engaged in fishing.
In the real world you also have to be prepared for a fishing vessel that is clearly not fishing actually behaving like a powered vessel, but that's the way it goes.
DJE
Well-known member
Sorry to be the pedant here but it is incorrect to deduce from the statement "All vessels engaged in fishing shall exhibit two cones" that all vessels exhibiting two cones are engaged in fishing.
A1Sailor
...
When there is no one in the wheelhouse of the other vessel?
About 0.5 nm SW of Penlee Point on Friday
Maybe there was somebody In Command!
VicS
Well-known member
Well you succeeded in posting a link ...... even the name on the transom is readable.
Your troubles probably lie with the new Photobucket, not the forum. They do if you have uploaded to P'bucket at 1024 x 768 and ticked the box to display in the original size.
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ProMariner
Active member
No man will have a long or happy life, if he expects a fishing boat to be paying attention to anyone but himself. Fisherman are the only sea users for whom seamanship is not the most valued asset.
It does not make them bad people, is just the current standard of their industry. I still like eating fish, and will miss the colour they provide once they have finished catching everything that swims.
It does not make them bad people, is just the current standard of their industry. I still like eating fish, and will miss the colour they provide once they have finished catching everything that swims.
Sandy
Well-known member
I am always cautious with any vessel who may, or may not, be fishing at any time and always give them a wide berth.
