Is there a standard IEC or other electrical code for European boats?

[PaulRainbow]

Again my question is what if a country or a boat builder does not comply with the directive.

It is said that they must comply to sell their boat but again what will the authorities do to the boat builder of the new owner of the boat if the builder / boat do not comply with the RCD / EU directive / country laws

What action will be taken by those enforcing the EU requirements

It's simple, if a builder does not comply with the RCD he will not be allowed to export to the EU.

 

[rogerthebodger]

So are you saying the the country of Export will not allow the boat to be exported or the country of import will not allow the boat to be imported.

Having been involved with importing into South Africa where Electrical goods must comply with SABS which is totally ineffective


And if the boat builder is located in the EU so no import process

If the importer is a private individual and the Boat is not EU compliant the only restriction as far as I know the that h cannot sell it for 5 years. Not much of a restriction in my view

Also If I emigrated back to the UK I could bring all my personal effects including Boat and Car with no import restrictions. I know as I did all that when I moved from the UK to South Africa

My point is that if it is a legal requirement to comply with a law and that law required to comply with a standard that costs money here that would be against the law

 

[PaulRainbow]

So are you saying the the country of Export will not allow the boat to be exported or the country of import will not allow the boat to be imported.

Having been involved with importing into South Africa where Electrical goods must comply with SABS which is totally ineffective

It's up to the country where the boat is being imported to.

And if the boat builder is located in the EU so no import process

Still has to comply.

If the importer is a private individual and the Boat is not EU compliant the only restriction as far as I know the that h cannot sell it for 5 years. Not much of a restriction in my view

That is incorrect, it still has to comply. You are getting confused with the clause that allows a private individual to build a new boat and not comply with the RCD as long as he doesn't sell the boat for 5 years, which i mentioned earlier.

Also If I emigrated back to the UK I could bring all my personal effects including Boat and Car with no import restrictions. I know as I did all that when I moved from the UK to South Africa

This is also incorrect. If you bring your boat to the UK it will need to comply with the RCR and you will need to pay VAT on the boats value. Your boat clearly will not comply with the RCR, so you will have to pay for it to be checked for compliance and to be certified. Your boat will fail the checks, if only for the engine not complying with current standards, so that will need to be replaced with a new, compliant, engine.

As for your car, it will need to be type approved for the UK, or, again, checked and made compliant.

My point is that if it is a legal requirement to comply with a law and that law required to comply with a standard that costs money here that would be against the law

This is the UK, if you come here you will need to comply with UK laws, rules, regulations etc. SA laws are not relevant.

 

[dunedin]

So are you saying the the country of Export will not allow the boat to be exported or the country of import will not allow the boat to be imported.

Having been involved with importing into South Africa where Electrical goods must comply with SABS which is totally ineffective


And if the boat builder is located in the EU so no import process

If the importer is a private individual and the Boat is not EU compliant the only restriction as far as I know the that h cannot sell it for 5 years. Not much of a restriction in my view

Also If I emigrated back to the UK I could bring all my personal effects including Boat and Car with no import restrictions. I know as I did all that when I moved from the UK to South Africa

My point is that if it is a legal requirement to comply with a law and that law required to comply with a standard that costs money here that would be against the law

You seem to be back on your private hobby horse about the basis for other nations laws. Not sure why?
There are a LOT of laws and (as in this case) product certification rules that cost money to comply with. Almost all product safety rules come into that category. But you can’t opt out of compliance just because building a non-compliant (potentially less safe) product was cheaper.

 

[pandos]

The OP's table from ABYC has admirable clarity. And would be a great resource to follow if one was wiring a boat in the US. (Or anywhere else)

I wonder if any of those actually in the know could tell us if there are any contradictions (in terms of wiring colours) between the RCD and associated European standards and the contents of that table.

Might prove to be a useful resource for anyone doing a bit of rewiring, should they wish to move someway towards alignment with the RCD and it's relatives.

 

[PaulRainbow]

The OP's table from ABYC has admirable clarity. And would be a great resource to follow if one was wiring a boat in the US. (Or anywhere else)

I wonder if any of those actually in the know could tell us if there are any contradictions (in terms of wiring colours) between the RCD and associated European standards and the contents of that table.

Might prove to be a useful resource for anyone doing a bit of rewiring, should they wish to move someway towards alignment with the RCD and it's relatives.

I have already posted the exact wording of the ISO, with regard to wiring colours.

 

[Refueler]

I have already posted the exact wording of the ISO, with regard to wiring colours.

Paul .. you and I have our 'moments' ... but I feel your pain with this !!

Some just don't know when to let go !!

Hope Xmas went well ... and we have plenty of threads to have posts together ....

 

[st599]

That is one of the main errors of the EU and wherever the non polarised plug / socket is prevalent. We all know that AC is exactly that Alternating between the two pins in effect - but there is bias and that can lead to some interesting results.

There is no EU directive on sockets, nor an EU socket. That was all standardised well before the EU came in to existence.

There is an attempt to have a plug that matches French and German standard sockets.

 

[Refueler]

There is no EU directive on sockets, nor an EU socket. That was all standardised well before the EU came in to existence.

There is an attempt to have a plug that matches French and German standard sockets.

And so the bull*** continues in EU ...

We only have to mention ENR !

 

[PaulRainbow]

Paul .. you and I have our 'moments' ... but I feel your pain with this !!

Some just don't know when to let go !!

Hope Xmas went well ... and we have plenty of threads to have posts together ....

Thanks, same to you.

 

[thinwater]

I have already posted the exact wording of the ISO, with regard to wiring colours.

The OP's table from ABYC has admirable clarity. And would be a great resource to follow if one was wiring a boat in the US. (Or anywhere else)

I wonder if any of those actually in the know could tell us if there are any contradictions (in terms of wiring colours) between the RCD and associated European standards and the contents of that table.

Might prove to be a useful resource for anyone doing a bit of rewiring, should they wish to move someway towards alignment with the RCD and it's relatives.

Unless I misunderstand, there is one area of difference. The ABYC is trying to avoid using a black for L- in 12 V systems because it is the same as the US AC 120 V neutral. Under the ISO standard, the colors to be avoided in 12 V systems are also 120 V colors, but they are different colors (brown, white or light blue).

The intent is to prevent 120 V and 12 V confusion, but because of differences in the 120 V code, the colors that are to be avoided are different.

So no, no useful standard IMO. But not a big deal, just mark everything.

 

[pandos]

I have already posted the exact wording of the ISO, with regard to wiring colours.

Apologies,

I had drafted my post earlier and then posted with out refreshing the new posts..

That's very helpful...

Thanks.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Apologies,

I had drafted my post earlier and then posted with out refreshing the new posts..

That's very helpful...

Thanks.

No problem, pleased you found it helpful.

 

[Tranona]

This is also incorrect. If you bring your boat to the UK it will need to comply with the RCR and you will need to pay VAT on the boats value. Your boat clearly will not comply with the RCR, so you will have to pay for it to be checked for compliance and to be certified. Your boat will fail the checks, if only for the engine not complying with current standards, so that will need to be replaced with a new, compliant, engine.

That bit is not correct (or only in certain circumstances) Returning residents or transferring residents can avail themselves of transfer of residence relief if they meet certain conditions. They can then bring with them (among other things) private pleasure vessels as part of their personal chattels without paying VAT or getting the boat certified. The restrictions on the boat are that it has to be previously owned before transfer of residence, then used for private pleasure by the transferee and not sold within (from memory) a year. This relief has always been there from the EU days and applies both in the EU and UK.

To clarify on a general point of certification, it is obviously aimed at commercial importing and the wording refers to "placed on the market" and this can only be done if the product has a CE/UKCA mark that requires evidence in the correct form that the boat complies with the appropriate category of the RCD/RCR. The same rule applies to private imports (even for personal use) on the basis that the boat is being placed on the market because there are no restrictions on selling the boat on the day it arrives - unlike personal import by a new resident of their personal chattels which does have restrictions.

That was the explanation I was given when I enquired about personal imports of boats many years ago and although I do not have a source for this interpretation it does seem to reflect practice.

Also worth noting that individual states in the EU do not have power to change anything in the RCD - the whole point of it was to stop individual state setting their own standards - I expect that as with VAT there are varying interpretations of rules for private imports and residence transfers where implementation processes are with individual states.

 

[PaulRainbow]

That bit is not correct (or only in certain circumstances) Returning residents or transferring residents can avail themselves of transfer of residence relief if they meet certain conditions. They can then bring with them (among other things) private pleasure vessels as part of their personal chattels without paying VAT or getting the boat certified. The restrictions on the boat are that it has to be previously owned before transfer of residence, then used for private pleasure by the transferee and not sold within (from memory) a year. This relief has always been there from the EU days and applies both in the EU and UK.

I was replying to Rogerthebodger, so it is correct. His boat has never been in the UK, he built it from a bare hull in South Africa. If he brings it to the UK it will be an import in the "normal" sense of the word and he will have to pay VAT and comply with the RCR.

To clarify on a general point of certification, it is obviously aimed at commercial importing and the wording refers to "placed on the market" and this can only be done if the product has a CE/UKCA mark that requires evidence in the correct form that the boat complies with the appropriate category of the RCD/RCR. The same rule applies to private imports (even for personal use) on the basis that the boat is being placed on the market because there are no restrictions on selling the boat on the day it arrives - unlike personal import by a new resident of their personal chattels which does have restrictions.

That was the explanation I was given when I enquired about personal imports of boats many years ago and although I do not have a source for this interpretation it does seem to reflect practice.

Think that's pretty much what i said (but with less words)

Also worth noting that individual states in the EU do not have power to change anything in the RCD - the whole point of it was to stop individual state setting their own standards - I expect that as with VAT there are varying interpretations of rules for private imports and residence transfers where implementation processes are with individual states.

I suspected that was the case, but wasn't 100% certain, thanks for clarifying.

 

[Tranona]

I was replying to Rogerthebodger, so it is correct. His boat has never been in the UK, he built it from a bare hull in South Africa. If he brings it to the UK it will be an import in the "normal" sense of the word and he will have to pay VAT and comply with the RCR.

As I read it Roger would be a "Returning resident" and would be able to bring his home made boat in free of VAT and Certification. The same would apply to a South African citizen relocating to the UK even if s/he did not originally come from the UK as it applies to anybody transferring residence. There is a S African boat in our club which was imported in this way. Makes sense to keep a record of the paperwork when you come to sell.

 

[rogerthebodger]

As I read it Roger would be a "Returning resident" and would be able to bring his home made boat in free of VAT and Certification. The same would apply to a South African citizen relocating to the UK even if s/he did not originally come from the UK as it applies to anybody transferring residence. There is a S African boat in our club which was imported in this way. Makes sense to keep a record of the paperwork when you come to sell.

Precisely

I emigrated from the UK to South Africa and came in with all my personal effects free of RSA Duties and VAT. I still have UK citizen and residents rights so I couth return to the UK and as Tranona said as a returning resident I can bring all my personal effects even those obtained in SA of elsewhere free of UK duty and VAT

This is to encourage legal emigration.

When I looked at moving to Australia I could do the same but as South Africa as issues but no more that most

My investments and pensions including 2 UK pensions give be a better standard of living that in the UK or Oz I am staying put

 

[PaulRainbow]

As I read it Roger would be a "Returning resident" and would be able to bring his home made boat in free of VAT and Certification. The same would apply to a South African citizen relocating to the UK even if s/he did not originally come from the UK as it applies to anybody transferring residence. There is a S African boat in our club which was imported in this way. Makes sense to keep a record of the paperwork when you come to sell.

Thanks for clarifying, i shall stand corrected