Is there a perfect boat for me?

[steve yates]

I've only skimmed the thread but I don't think a Warrior 38 or 40 has been suggested yet. They don't all have aft heads, but the one we viewed did. Sturdy boats, masses of deck space. Twin quarter cabins so you don't have the aft 'stateroom' but the forecabin is very nice. Various layouts were offered.
They do have a saildrive which I suspect may not be your ideal choice, but let's not open that particular can of worms.

I swear I saw a trident boat of some kind like the warrior, with a great aft cabin, but cant seem to find it again. That would be pretty close to perfection. (If a saildrive can be changed out for something more old fashioned ) Ok, it was the 40, with a great fore cabin which would work as well or better, so is definitely a top contender.

A dawn 39 would be definite on the list, thanks FrHackett, I had never heard of them.

Starlight 39

Contest 38

IP 35

Vancouver 36, would have to have discussions about the double quarter berth though

Oyster 39 ketch (over the 406 which doesnt appear to have a sep aft cabin?)

Cromarty 36, perfect scottish boat Would need to think hard about the pilot house idea for ocean crossings though, my gut says no.

Moody 35/36/39

All of these look like superb boats.

 

[Goldie]

Oyster 39 ketch (over the 406 which doesnt appear to have a sep aft cabin?

The 406 does indeed have a (very good!) separate aft cabin but layouts vary. Some have an offset double, some have a centreline double. There are 406 owners on this forum who could no doubt provide more info’ if required.

 

[Kelpie]

I swear I saw a trident boat of some kind like the warrior, with a great aft cabin, but cant seem to find it again. That would be pretty close to perfection. (If a saildrive can be changed out for something more old fashioned ) Ok, it was the 40, with a great fore cabin which would work as well or better, so is definitely a top contender.

A dawn 39 would be definite on the list, thanks FrHackett, I had never heard of them.

Starlight 39

Contest 38

IP 35

Vancouver 36, would have to have discussions about the double quarter berth though

Oyster 39 ketch (over the 406 which doesnt appear to have a sep aft cabin?)

Cromarty 36, perfect scottish boat Would need to think hard about the pilot house idea for ocean crossings though, my gut says no.

Moody 35/36/39

All of these look like superb boats.

The Warrior 38 and 40 are essentially the same boat. They are aft cockpit with a generous pilot berth either side, but not really doubles. They have quite high freeboard so that translates in to ample headroom throughout, making the forecabin very nice. Encapsulated keel and a good solid rudder arrangement. I loved the clear deck space, masses of room for a tender and lots of options for staysails etc. We didn't end up buying one but that was because of modifications made by the owner, and his refusal to budge on the price.

If the Moody 39 you're referring to is the Angus Primrose design, then I would give that a more qualified recommendation. We've had one for nearly three years now and do intend to cross oceans with it. So far, it's taken us from Scotland to the Algarve without breaking a sweat. I have every confidence in it, and it was the right boat at the right price for us, but it is not without its downsides. In particular, addressing your list, there is no heads at the companionway, and there are only sea berths if you are on starboard tack. The rig has a babystay rather than forward lowers, which messes up the deck space. The skeg is quite skinny compared to others.

There are ways around these problems. We built a nesting dinghy to fit on the deck. We use the forward passageway floor as our sea berth when it gets rough (you can't fall out if you're already on the floor!). And we are fitting a Hydrovane in case of any rudder problems.

 

[westhinder]

Would need to think hard about the pilot house idea for ocean crossings though, my gut says no.

If you want to stay within the trade wind belt, you’re probably right, but if you’re going to cross oceans in higher latitudes a pilot house is worth its weight in gold. I crossed from the Azores to Nova Scotia, 3 windless days followed by 10 days on the wind, up to 7 Bft, and I can assure you it is rather nice to do your watches from the shelter and comfort of the pilothouse. We only put on foulies to take a reef.

 

[fredrussell]

…All of these look like superb boats.

Pah! Did my HR 352 not make the cut then? It ticks loads of your boxes.

 

[E39mad]

I swear I saw a trident boat of some kind like the warrior, with a great aft cabin, but cant seem to find it again. That would be pretty close to perfection. (If a saildrive can be changed out for something more old fashioned ) Ok, it was the 40, with a great fore cabin which would work as well or better, so is definitely a top contender.

Vancouver 36, would have to have discussions about the double quarter berth though

A Vancouver 36 has a separate double aft cabin - they never had quarter berths. The 34 classic had a single quarter berth whereas V34 Pilot had a double midships cabin.

 

[whaup]

Pah! Did my Moody 352 not make the cut then? It ticks loads of your boxes.

I suspect a typo...

Steve has ignored the suggestions for HRs, including the listing I posted for one that (I think) fitted all of his initial criteria. I suspect there's something unspoken behind this, as they are pretty much designed & built to fit the segment he says he's shopping in... "a cross between the seaworthyness of earlier designs with more modern interior approach... medium to heavy displacement, with good motion at sea, can go upwind without constant pounding and slamming", "..good sea berths, good grab handles and fiddles appropriate for an ocean going boat _ can cross oceans in relative comfort _ can heave to easily and well"

Sounds like their design brief! They are also one of the relatively few builders who are still making quality long-distance cruising boats under 40'

 

[fredrussell]

I suspect a typo...

'

Many thanks, now corrected!

 

[dunedin]

I suspect a typo...

Steve has ignored the suggestions for HRs, including the listing I posted for one that (I think) fitted all of his initial criteria. I suspect there's something unspoken behind this, as they are pretty much designed & built to fit the segment he says he's shopping in... "a cross between the seaworthyness of earlier designs with more modern interior approach... medium to heavy displacement, with good motion at sea, can go upwind without constant pounding and slamming", "..good sea berths, good grab handles and fiddles appropriate for an ocean going boat _ can cross oceans in relative comfort _ can heave to easily and well"

Sounds like their design brief! They are also one of the relatively few builders who are still making quality long-distance cruising boats under 40'

Of course over a decade ago HR modernised their smaller models with much faster HR 342 and 372 models, which are lovely and great to sail.
With their bigger ones they have gone further, now with twin spade rudders

 

[Minerva]

With their bigger ones they have gone further, now with twin spade rudders

You mean they provide a spare spade rudder?

 

[jonic]

A Vancouver 36 has a separate double aft cabin - they never had quarter berths.

Here's a video of the interior of one I sold three or four years ago which shows that separate double aft cabin. She was a really lovely boat but we have not had one for sale since.

 

[steve yates]

I suspect a typo...

Steve has ignored the suggestions for HRs, including the listing I posted for one that (I think) fitted all of his initial criteria. I suspect there's something unspoken behind this, as they are pretty much designed & built to fit the segment he says he's shopping in... "a cross between the seaworthyness of earlier designs with more modern interior approach... medium to heavy displacement, with good motion at sea, can go upwind without constant pounding and slamming", "..good sea berths, good grab handles and fiddles appropriate for an ocean going boat _ can cross oceans in relative comfort _ can heave to easily and well"

Sounds like their design brief! They are also one of the relatively few builders who are still making quality long-distance cruising boats under 40'

He hasn't but apologies because I thought the stern cabin looked like 2 single berths and john mentioned they hade spade rudders.

So the 352 and the 36 are both on the list. Here you go...

Dawn 39

Starlight 39

Contest 38

IP 35

Vancouver 36, would have to have discussions about the double quarter berth though

Oyster 39 ketch (over the 406 which doesnt appear to have a sep aft cabin?)

Cromarty 36, perfect scottish boat Would need to think hard about the pilot house idea for ocean crossings though, my gut says no.

Moody 35/36/39

HR 352/36

 

[whaup]

Do you care about resale value?

 

[steve yates]

Do you care about resale value?

nope

 

[steve yates]

Here's a video of the interior of one I sold three or four years ago which shows that separate double aft cabin. She was a really lovely boat but we have not had one for sale since.

Yes, thats a beautiful boat, I like, a lot!! Nice product placement I already have that book.

 

[whaup]

nope

That makes HRs look like poorer value... the "solid residuals" attract a premium that pushes up prices. Does have the advantage that owners may invest more in the boats to sustain it, though, so not all bad.
... and they are nice boats.

 

[steve yates]

They are, but spending money on a boat, for me, is purely about do i have the cash, can i afford to run it, ( tho i often wing that bit) and where could i go in it?
Boats make no financial sense at all, so I forget about ideas like depreciation, investment, loss or gain and the rest of it. Its a hobby or a way of life.

 

[jonic]

They are, but spending money on a boat, for me, is purely about do i have the cash, can i afford to run it, ( tho i often wing that bit) and where could i go in it?
Boats make no financial sense at all, so I forget about ideas like depreciation, investment, loss or gain and the rest of it. Its a hobby or a way of life.

I entirely agree - especially from a long distance liveaboard perspective.

We have a mantra in our house - Boat money is not real money and the enjoyment is priceless.

Also, if you purchase the boat for a big trip and then sell later and look at the amount of capital returned, the "trip" is often surprisingly good value.

We covered over 25,000 miles, crossed an ocean, visited hundreds of places and raised two children over an eight year period in tropical paradises and surrounded by the most breathtaking wildlife. We would have paid £Millions for that trip but it actually started in a £50k Westerly Corsair.

 

[steve yates]

And I suspect that what you actually spent living each year as a family during your 8 year tour of paradise was probably less than what you would have spent living back here in those 8 years, you would have certainly been more stressed

 

[Birdseye]

It seems to be a cross between the seaworthyness of older designs with more modern interior approach.
Transom or skeg hung rudder, absolutely no spade rudders.
long keel , with or without cutaway forefoot, at a pinch a bolted long fin keel, ( that have a distinctly horizontal profile like westerly’s, rather than a vertical one, )
Definitely no plumb bows
medium to heavy displacement with good motion at sea,

Do you really think that the sort of design you see in the modern globe races arent seaworthy? You are falling into the trap of thinking that only old fashioned is good when the reality is that boat design gets better every year, albeit more slowly because of conservatism than car or plane design.

The long keel narrow hulled sloping bow designs were like that because thats the only way in the old days that you could make a boat from dead trees. It wasnt because they could have made modern designs but decided not to do so.