Is there a modern equivalant to the Nicholson 32

[Robin]

and then there's lead.

Yes but many lead keels are of course bolted on to the hull just like cast iron ones too rather than moulded in situ. Might be fun to pour molten lead into a fibreglass hull moulding, I suspect the boatbuilder who did that could get a bad reputation doublequick!

 

[Tomahawk]

You can pour led shot into the keel... then encapuslate it with resin...

 

[Birdseye]

Grp is not good at abrasion resistance when you dry the boat out against a wall. Or misjudge the tide depth. Seen a boat in real trouble after just one tide when making that mistake.

Anybody want to comment on what is / is not an AWB

 

[alant]

I can sail backwards faster than some of these old fashioned monohull things can sail forwards.....

This was a brilliant thread, I was so captivated I hadn't even realised it was five years old until I got to page 9...... Just as someone said that old seaworthy yachts don't suddenly cease to be so because a newer design comes along then five year old advice is still just as valuable now as it was then. The right boat is what is right for you, taking into account what you want to do with it and what you want out of it.

I have an F27 trimaran because it is the most exciting and involving sailing that you can get and still be able to eat and sleep on in relative comfort. I don't want to cross oceans, and it's not the sort of boat you can hide below on in a blow as it requires constant sailing to keep it safe, but on the other hand with modern electronics and my performance I've yet to sail into anything I didn't want to..... I can also get her from my home near Dover to the Solent in less than three hours even into a stiff westerly...... I don't think there are bad boats, only bad sailors..........

A mate, has an F25 he races near Cannes, regularly beats 50' mono's over long distances!

 

[doug748]

......Whats the hang up about deck stepped masts? Much better in engineering terms - ...... Vertical transmission of load is just the same. I can see no reason why it isnt every bit as secure if not more so since there is no bending moment at deck level.

Dunno about hang ups. I think my comment on keel stepped masts was just about the only one on this thread and that was to suggest that I did not like them very much. Tho I did say I might change my ideas if I were planning to cross an ocean.

However your observations on engineering are just incorrect. Unlike most of the discussion on these pages this one is a matter of physics not passion or argument

 

[Birdseye]

Dunno about hang ups. I think my comment on keel stepped masts was just about the only one on this thread and that was to suggest that I did not like them very much. Tho I did say I might change my ideas if I were planning to cross an ocean.

However your observations on engineering are just incorrect. Unlike most of the discussion on these pages this one is a matter of physics not passion or argument

Go on then - teach me some Physics. And it was the OP, at whom my reply was aimed, who insisted on a keel stepped mast.

 

[Robin]

You can pour led shot into the keel... then encapuslate it with resin...

Yep just not as dramatic. the yanks like AWB bashing too, Hunters usually take the flack but not exclusively. Look at the keel fixing on this bolted on one
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f55/hunter-keel-fell-off-141173.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+cruisersforumnews+%28Cruisers+Forum+-+Emails%29

 

[TimBennet]

Go on then - teach me some Physics.

A deck stepped mast is considered to be a pin ended beam as opposed to being fixed ended at the lower end.

You either need a thicker wall section (heavier) or more rigging (heavier, expensive and more drag) to make a deck stepped mast as stiff as a keel stepped mast.

Engineering wise, a keel stepped mast is the better solution. Look in any naval architecture book from Skene onwards.

However and engineering advantage for me is completely nullified by the leaks and water ingress.

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

As far as I aware my keel stepped mast hadn't leaked in 10 years of ownership, the Beneteau I owned beforehand was a different kettle of fish so when it rained hard you could watch the droplets bead down the mast into the bilge

 

[Daydream believer]

6 years ago I sailed in company with an american who had sailed his Nic 32 from america with 3 others. He was going to sail Europe for a few years
I said that his boat looked fairly new & was surprised when he said it was only a year old. He had decided that a Nic 32 was the definitive ocean cruiser for its size & had obtained the plans & had it purpose built in america
So it seems you could get a new one if you wanted to pay for it

 

[paulg]

I'm enjoying this thread. Informative, biased, educated and experienced sailors/owners.

 

[Robin]

I'm enjoying this thread. Informative, biased, educated and experienced sailors/owners.

Well it has had what 7 years to collect all the above,

 

[Wansworth]

Form me the only downside of the nic 32 is the toilet facilities shoehorned in by the mast.

 

[sjdtuk]

On the other hand - encapsulated keels are very stong and if hit hard are less likely to break the frames when the back of the keel is pushed up by the impact. This may be down to the shape you mention.

Its quite easy to repair if you loose a chunk of keel - unfortunately I have tried!

Also ssaw a Contessa which hit a rock at full speed and took a fist sized bit out of the keel.
Only needed cosmetic repair.

 

[Sybarite]

The keel stepped ones only real advantage IMO is that they transfer the rig loads directly to the keel and that frees the designer from the need to place either internal bulkheads or support struts in the cabin where they might not be convenient to the layout otherwise, this is rarely a real problem as most boats will need a main bulkhead in about the right place anyway. Tuning keel stepped rigs is more difficult as there is a secondary contact point where the mast passes through the deck and where wedges (rubber spacers) are needed. Then any water entering the mast via halyard entries and exits or even the mainsail track inevitably finds it's way below into the bilges and that assumes a perfect seal at the mast coat on the deck opening which will need replacing periodically. Mast removal and re-stepping is more complicated and the mast is heavier, there is no possibility of doing it without a crane lift. There is also a tendency for the base of a keel stepped mast to corrode where it sits in a pool of salty bilge water. Finally, mast storage is more of a problem ashore because of the extra length and carrying it on deck as in perhaps going through the canals to the Med would be harder.

The Westerly 33 was a heavy (in modern terms) built boat, around twice the displacement of a Co32 for example and much more than the equivalent Moody or similar. I'm not saying weight is everything but you seem to favour heavier rather than lighter. We owned a W33 Ketch for 14 years and would happily take it anywhere. We sailed ours across Channel several times upwind in gale force conditions on the weekend booze runs, but we were more masochistic back then! There is a well known curate from Weymouth that used to sail his Discus (same hull aft cockpit) with young disadvantaged kids as crew, not on Channel jollies but to Newfoundland or Greenland and finally round the world even round Cape Horn I think.

The Westerly Conway (same designer Laurent Giles as the W33/Discus) was an earlier design than the W33 but a very good long distance cruiser which had a walk through to the aft cabin and a 2nd loo over the W33, otherwise the same below.

Thinking more outside the box than I suspect you will want, but look at the Jeanneau Sunfizz 40 which will just be in your budget. This was designed by Philipe Briande specifically for the OSTAR transatlantic race which takes the upwind masochist's route but around 1000 were subsequently built as a production cruiser racer in the early 1980s. We have friends with a really lovely one that was the catalyst to our going Jeanneau and buying the Sun Fizz replacement, the 1988 Sun Legende 41 we owned for 10 years until December. The later Sun Fizz 40s are better with a nice teak interior, early ones had some formica that was a Marmite (like it or hate it) finish. There are plenty about but many were chartered and the better ones will like our friend's have been fitted with extra stowage lockers below to replace the pilot berths. We just missed one when we were looking that had done the Atlantic circuit and had all the gear, as did our Sun Legende but that would be out of your price range.

I agree too about the teak decks, cockpit yes if glued not screwed down, decks oh no no no!

I had a deal on a Sun Fizz until the person taking my boat dropped out. As a cruising boat (according to a recent mag article) its hull had a greater load bearing capacity than the Sun Legende and, as from 1985, the interior was in teak instead of mahogany and the hull was reinforced with Kevlar.

It was a lovely boat to helm.

 

[Loopy]

In the past one went with what was available locally and got on the bike to view.

At the current rate that gasoline and shipping are going...those days may be back sooner than you think.