Is there a lack of boats?

[Sneaky Pete]

Is it my imagination that there appears to be a lack of boats for sale with brokerages just now. Each one I look at advertises boats of which many are shown as sold which is good as shows they are generating business, but there would appear to be less current owners looking to sell.

 

[westhinder]

The Clipper Marine ad in the current YM states: ‘Brokerage boats urgently required, clients waiting’
And the 2 page ad for Ancasta is only an ad for their services, no boats listed.
So on the face of it, it would appear to be the case.
Maybe there are two distinct secondhand markets: one for newer, bigger, more upmarket boats and a totally different one for older, smaller boats?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Yachtworld has 2275 used sailboats listed in the UK.
I think it's lack of profit rather than lack of boats.

 

[Momac]

In the recession from 2008 there were fewer than previous new boats being built - over several years . Demand for used boats picking up throughout 2017. Not many nearly new boats for sale because not many had been built in the several years prior to 2017. Therefore more people considering the older used boats.
Or something like that.

 

[jonic]

Maybe there are two distinct secondhand markets: one for newer, bigger, more upmarket boats and a totally different one for older, smaller boats?

You are quite right.

The last two years were extremely good, with a very high demand for certain used sail boats. Some stock was sold abroad because of the weak pound, so for some areas of the used yacht market stocks have run low.

We have clients waiting for the right boat and currently the most requested yacht is a used three cabin 45ft deck saloon quality cruising yacht, circa £150k. At the end of last season we were selling good condition DS yachts in that price bracket almost as soon as we sent details out to our clients. Stock is still low and we have more coming on in the next few months, however there is definitely a shortage compared to "normal" years.

 

[Jim@sea]

Is it my imagination that there appears to be a lack of boats for sale with brokerages just now. Each one I look at advertises boats of which many are shown as sold which is good as shows they are generating business, but there would appear to be less current owners looking to sell.

Perhaps with many people now finding out how easy it is to sell a boat using the Internet less boats are offered for sale this way although if you live a long way from where your boat is located perhaps this is the only way for an accompanied viewing.

 

[Greenheart]

...many people now finding out how easy it is to sell a boat using the Internet...

The internet has made the window-shopping a lot easier too.

I wasn't in the market to buy, in the days before websites like Boatshed supplied dozens of close-up photos to convey the condition of boats for sale.

I can only imagine how infuriating it was, to drive for hours to look at a boat that had been largely misrepresented in a twenty-word magazine advertisement.

What I find noticeable at the moment, is the enormous proportion of boats for sale in Wales. Perhaps English offerings have dropped while Welsh stayed the same?

 

[GrahamM376]

What I find noticeable at the moment, is the enormous proportion of boats for sale in Wales. Perhaps English offerings have dropped while Welsh stayed the same?

Seems that people will travel south to see boats because they have a wider choice but are unwilling to travel north to see a one-off.

 

[jwilson]

Yes there is a shortage of people putting their boats up for sale - we ( http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/ ) have sold quite a few boats recently but little is coming up to replace them.

 

[[3889]]

Seems that people will travel south to see boats because they have a wider choice but are unwilling to travel north to see a one-off.

But Wales is South?!?

More seriously, how would our resident brokers assess the market for selling a 36' AWB, 2007 vintage? Newer, bigger or older , smaller.....or somewhere inbetween?

 

[No Regrets]

Given the exchange rates, boats are being exported to Europe.

I have it on good authority...

 

[Barbican]

I thought there must be a shortage, I got a nice note and a brokers card left on the boat this week....

 

[doug748]

Given the exchange rates, boats are being exported to Europe.

I have it on good authority...

All the prime stock is being tempted out into the market -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sailing-Yacht/183058977542?hash=item2a9f2a5306:g:QPMAAOSwBRVaecbM

 

[Tranona]

All the prime stock is being tempted out into the market -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sailing-Yacht/183058977542?hash=item2a9f2a5306:g:QPMAAOSwBRVaecbM

With your approach to renovating old boats you could have that up and running in a couple of weeks for a couple of hundred pounds - and lots of humour.

 

[doug748]

....couple of weeks for a couple of hundred pounds - and lots of humour.

You would certainly need it. I like this bit:

"Please note this is a project boat and the lucky purchaser will not get an automatic right for a mooring"

 

[roblpm]

There's got to be an effect from the pound falling. When I look at any given boat on yachtworld the cheapest ones always seem to be the UK ones. So not many second hand boats being imported. Also maybe some being exported.

Also it was very noticeable how unaffordable a new boat would be at the dusseldorf boat show.

Now the brexiteers would assume that this would increase the sales of new British boats. They just forgot that there aren't any manufacturers left!

 

[Simon__]

I think there is; good examples at least. I'm currently in the market for my first boat (26-28ft, ~£7k max) and can count on one hand the number of examples I've found with recent engines (n.b recent in my mind is at most 10 years - one advert claimed an engine installed in 2000 was recent!).

However, tidy examples with old gear are ten a penny.

 

[jwilson]

Re "...how would our resident brokers assess the market for selling a 36' AWB, 2007 vintage?

I'd say the market should be fairly good, as long as the boat presents well and is not truly badly looked after or overworked. 35-45 ft is possibly the ideal for ordinary family cruising/pottering boats these days. The boat does however have to be priced sensibly: the days of pitching a high number "just to see" seem to be over.

A 2007 36' AWB is now in prime "starter boat" territory. Buyers have done some courses, some flotilla, a couple of charters. The only problem is that many have never maintained a boat themselves, so a survey that list 10 relatively minor items to be dealt with ( you'd find that on almost every boat in commission if surveyed tomorrow ) then terrifies them, and they run around getting boatyard quotes for every little job. £500 in materials/parts turns into £4,000 in estimates with yard labour.

The same survey on a 11 year old 36' given to someone who'd had and maintained say a Centaur for a few years would be regarded as excellent.

 

[Tranona]

I think there is; good examples at least. I'm currently in the market for my first boat (26-28ft, ~£7k max) and can count on one hand the number of examples I've found with recent engines (n.b recent in my mind is at most 10 years - one advert claimed an engine installed in 2000 was recent!).

However, tidy examples with old gear are ten a penny.

Hardly surprising when somebody has spent as much money as your total budget on a new engine is unlikely to put his boat on the market rather than get a few year's use of it. Many older cheaper boats are on the market because the owner fears a big bill such as an engine or the cost of mooring and using it is getting too high.

 

[Simon__]

Absolutely - you'd hope anyone who does put the time and effort into restoring / maintaining a good example they would get fair value before selling on.

Just to give you a bit of background - I'm 29 and this will be my first boat. The boats I'm looking at aren't particularly glamorous (I.e. Centaur) and I believe the market for these will continue to fall. I see buying one of these as essentially writing the money off as in 5 years time I believe the market for these will further decrease as people my age and younger generally aren't interested in boats of this ilk. To this end - I'd expect anyone selling one to somewhat struggle (Dylan Winter being the exception - but even Dylan bought his example with a new engine for less than my budget) and because the cost of annual mooring exceeds 50% of value of these boats for the many who seem to keep them in marinas, they appear to be a huge liability - the level of liability determined by the general condition. I'm not sure many of the (small, old) boats some would like to offload will ever sell, and if they do, I imagine the negative equity from yard fees while the boat lay unused will exceed what they eventually receive.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll soon find out whether I'm being realistic or not when I start making offers - if I'm not then I'll be gazumped, if not the boats will continue to be listed; many boats appear to have been listed for years - some unused in that time.

Sorry if this sounds horribly cynical but this is how I'm framing it - I can't pretend this is an investment, it's a cost I'm willing to pay to gain the value from boat ownership and the journeys it will enable me to have. I'm also not out to rip anyone off, I just don't think most boats are worth what some think they are (these small, old boats are bizarrely worth less than the sum of their parts) and they will be worth even less when I come to sell (whether or not I maintain the boat appropriately).