Is Grounding a Naval Vessel an Automatic Court Martial?

[savageseadog]

or possibly a board of enquiry?

I'm talking about smaller patrol type vessels but not RIBS etc.

 

[Babylon]

Its one of the established routes into farming.

 

[alant]

or possibly a board of enquiry?

I'm talking about smaller patrol type vessels but not RIBS etc.

Why?

 

[bigwow]

Why do you ask, has HMS Biter hit the mud bank inside the lock gate?

 

[nortada]

Why?

Unlike the other 2 Services, the Navy can use A Courts Martial as a method of examining the circumstances with the guilty barsteward present & under close arrest!

 

[savageseadog]

Why do you ask, has HMS Biter hit the mud bank inside the lock gate?

I'm not saying anything!

 

[jamesjermain]

Yes, even in the unlikely event that the Captain was clearly not at fault, the process has to be gone through. The same applies to collisions.

 

[macd]

Is Grounding a Naval Vessel an Automatic Court Martial?

It wasn't for the Campbelltown. In fact the skipper got a VC.

 

[OGITD]

No!

Yes

Or it wasn't in 83 ... & that was with one of our 'Capital' Ships (Boats) .... ..... it all just depends! ...

 

[Greenwichman]

or possibly a board of enquiry?

I'm talking about smaller patrol type vessels but not RIBS etc.

It depends. Board of Inquiry - certainly; Court Martial - often .....
There are noble exceptions, but these are rare enough for a CO on the putty to assume the worst ....

 

[ffiill]

Back in 1916 the Destroyer Captain who thought he could beat the Spring tide in KyleRea and wrote it off was Court Martialed.

 

[jamesjermain]

Yes...well... My father was Court Marshalled for hitting a Turkish submarine during a NATO exercise. He was fully exonerated (it surfaced under his bow) and later commended for his part in the subsequent rescue.

 

[MASH]

I think you'll find that part of the responsibility of command is the responsibility of those under you, the principle in the RN has long been that the Commander takes responsibility so even of the Capt is asleep in his cabin while the OOW runs his ship aground the Captain is ultimately responsible. It is the basic concept of responsibility. That isn't to say that the OOW (and the NavO, also asleep in his cabin) don't go down too, you are in charge, you carry the can.

Perhaps a difficult concept in these "ain't my fault guv" days, but the real chain of responsibility nonetheless.

 

[Brightwork]

Nobody has ever been Court Martial'd for running aground a naval hovercraft - so no.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

No, for a Court Martial somebody has first to be charged. If nobody charges the person who was in command of the vessel that was grounded then nobody will be court-martialled. The may well be a memo floating around from C-in-C something or other that says something along the lines of "in the event of a vessel being grounded the commanding officer shall be charged with driving without due care and attention regardless of circumstances" but someone still actually has to charge the Co of the vessel with that or there's no charge to answer at the Court Martial. even if was written in QR's somebody would still have to bring the charge. It's no different to speeding or killing someone - if you don't get charged then it's impossible to prosecute. Of course you can ordered to charge someone.

Having said that any significant grounding would be an event that would be discussed in high circles and it's not viewed in the same way as crashing an a/c. In the RAF poor flying performance is treated differently - whilst it is reviewed and punished if it's felt appropriate the punishment may affect your flying career more than your career as an officer if it's felt that the problem is of competence and that you're trying as hard as you can. Most of the pilots I knew would be horrified at the thought of a performance review and flight checks as a result. On the other hand I know one who got carried away and threw a glass through a huge piece of glass at the entrance to the mess hall - the glass was about 10' by 30' and was etched with all the squadron crests, etc. In the 70's that was a really expensive piece and he got charged and "severely punished" but wasn't too worried as it didn't really affect his flying. An extra few years to get to Sqn Ldr was no big deal at all.

In think part of it is a recognition that it's very, very likely to be a failure of leadership if you put a decent size vessel on the putty whereas you can smack an aircraft down just because you're a carp pilot. It was often said that RAF has officers and it has pilots but that the two are not synonymous.

 

[ukmctc]

only if caught.

 

[nortada]

In think part of it is a recognition that it's very, very likely to be a failure of leadership if you put a decent size vessel on the putty whereas you can smack an aircraft down just because you're a carp pilot. It was often said that RAF has officers and it has pilots but that the two are not synonymous.

Interesting, were you a Pilot or an Officer?

As the Chief of The Air Staff (boss of the RAF) is invariably Aircrew & usually a Pilot, based on your observation, the RAF is not commanded by an Officer? Interesting.

God help the RAF if a 'ground pounder' was running the shop.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Interesting, were you a Pilot or an Officer?

As the Chief of The Air Staff (boss of the RAF) is invariably Aircrew & usually a Pilot, based on your observation, the RAF is not commanded by an Officer? Interesting.

God help the RAF if a 'ground pounder' was running the shop.

I completely fail to understand how you managed to extrapolate the contents of my post to reach that conclusion but quite why a "ground-pounder" is less qualified to run the RAF I cannot see. The main reason pilots move into their senior roles is tradition and the fact that no-one knows what else to do with them. Pilots electing to follow a career path do remarkably few flying tours and often spent more time in training than operational flying. Pilots on operational tours basically do what they're told to by everybody else - that's not decrying their skills for one minute but they are a small part of a team and are the first to admit it.

I was an Officer but not commissioned...