johnalison
Well-known member
Often
Is a sailing boat with its engine on but not in gear a power boat?
- Thread starter pteron
- Start date
Often
bedouin
Well-known member
The machinery used for propulsion is not just the engine - it is the gear box and prop shaft and propellor...
If the propellor is not being driven by the engine then the vessel is not power driven.
If the propellor is not being driven by the engine then the vessel is not power driven.
l'escargot
New member
Rule 3 is also quite clear on the definition of a "power-driven vessel" - it means "... any vessel propelled by machinery". A boat sailing with it's engine in neutral is not being propelled by machinery, it is being propelled by it's sails alone.
PlankWalker
Active member
When using the small ships channel in Portsmouth Harbour one is obliged by law to have ones engine running if you have one.
There is nothing in the rules to say it should be in gear. More often than not if tacking is not required my engine is just ticking over and out of gear.
I've never seen a cone in the small ships channel.
There is nothing in the rules to say it should be in gear. More often than not if tacking is not required my engine is just ticking over and out of gear.
I've never seen a cone in the small ships channel.
bitbaltic
Well-known member
+1 if the engine is not turning the machinery of the propeller it does not matter what else it is doing.
bigwow
Well-known member
Does the ejection of the exhaust gases and cooling water give any kind of forward propulsion?
bitbaltic
Well-known member
No more than p*****g off the taffrail i suspect!
l'escargot
New member
There is no ambiguity in rule 25, it says "...when also being propelled by machinery...". An engine running out of gear is not providing propulsion and a cone is not required in that situation. I think that shows that the ColRegs intend for "in use" to be interpreted as in "propelling" not just running.
onesea
Well-known member
Wrong a vessel anchored is moored or made fast to the sea bed, some where in the rules that is covered... There is a big difference... Different day shapes different lights...
A PDV with engine running but not engaged is underway but not making way as is still obliged to follow the rule of the road... It is not NUC or RAM it is drifting as it chooses to if risk of collision develops he has to engage engine and react... His lights of a night are not special he is just a PDV.
It is mute point about the sailing vessel, but I consider myself a PDV, I would still expect it to act like one although 90% don't that goes back to my post #5
As it is the argument is pretty mute as jimbaerselman said before:
The rest is just talk.....
mainsail1
Well-known member
Until this thread started I thought it was very obvious how the rules should be applied. After reading all the posts, I still think it is very obvious. This thread could be described as much ado about nothing!
Highland Bear
New member
So, we have the magnificent 100ft sloop Leopard, often seen in the Solent and a veteran of RTI, Fastnet and Sydney-Hobart Races to name but a few of its honours. Even when racing, the engine is always running, simply because it needs the power to run the canting keel, hydraulic dagger boards and power winches. So when you see Leopard heading towards you, under full sail, on a starboard tack at circa 30 kts, are you going to try arguing that it isn't sailing just because the engine is running?
Good luck with that "interpretation" of the Colregs!
Good luck with that "interpretation" of the Colregs!
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snowleopard
Active member
+1 The rule states "(e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forwards where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards."
There is no ambiguity whatever. Anything else is wishful thinking and/or incomplete knowledge of the rules. There is no place for 'never mind what it says, what it should say is....'
l'escargot
New member
Don't know quite know what you are arguing there, I think you agree with me
A PDV with engine running but not engaged is underway but not making way as is still obliged to follow the rule of the road... It is not NUC or RAM it is drifting as it chooses to if risk of collision develops he has to engage engine and react... His lights of a night are not special he is just a PDV.
I think you are agreeing with me there too in a roundabout way - a boat powered by sail with it's engine running out of gear is not a powered driven vessel, it's not "not under command" nor is it restricted in it's ability to manoeuvre, it is simply a sailing vessel. A boat not being propelled by machinery cannot be a power driven vessel. An engine in neutral is not providing propulsion.
It is mute point about the sailing vessel, but I consider myself a PDV, I would still expect it to act like one although 90% don't that goes back to my post #5
As it is the argument is pretty mute as jimbaerselman said before:
The rest is just talk.....
I don't think it a moot point at all - and the rest is just waffle...
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alan_d
Well-known member
If that were true Rule 35 would not make sense. It describes the sound signal to be made in restricted visibility by "A power-driven vessel underway but stopped and making no way though the water." According to you this state of affairs could not exist.
pmagowan
Well-known member
The colregs seem very clear to me. The fact that there is any debate suggests that people need to read them.
onesea
Well-known member
Far from agreeing with you, you state "A boat sailing with the engine in neutral is still sailing, it is not motoring - just like a motorboat with it's anchor down and it's motor running in neutral is still anchored and not motoring." That is simply NOT the case, an anchored vessel is just simply not relevant.
I don't think it a moot point at all - and the rest is just waffle...
Again I go back to what I said earlier if I had engine running I will keep out of his way and depending on the circumstances of the case my opinion of him will be lower....
Oh and having just chatted with a master mariner if you do similar to and get in the way of his ship he will just think what another idiot WAFI....
bbg
Active member
They seem clear to me too.
Jamesuk
Active member
NO
I am sure someone will give you as essay length response tho to answer your question tho)
I am sure someone will give you as essay length response tho to answer your question tho
)
jerrytug
N/A
And me!
l'escargot
New member
If you disagree, you must be saying that saying a boat with it's anchor down with it's motor running in neutral isn't anchored, it's motoring. Sorry that's just plain daft.
Sorry that just doesn't make an sense to me - if I do the same as you and get in the way of his ship he will think I'm an idiot WAFI? I don't think I have suggested getting in the way of anyones ship, only to comply with ColRegs. A master mariner who thinks someone is an idiot WAFI for doing that isn't a very good master mariner
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