Inverter

[Observer]

I'm looking for a small TV for the boat to fit in a dedicated locker provided with mains and 12v power and aerial connections. I'd prefer 12v/230v but the largest screen size available seems to be 10" screen which fits easily in the locker but the screen is a bit on the small side. The locker will (just) accommodate some 14" portables but everything over 10" seems to be 230v AC only. So, I am thinking of a small 150W inverter fed from the 12v socket. TLC do one for £20 which seems cheap enough. However, the instruction manual states that it must be switched off before starting engines, which I think may be easy to forget if it's stuck in the back of the locker.

Is this likely to be the case with all inverters? I'd prefer one which is "fit and forget", if possible.

I may also want to power a digital receiver to improve reception. Assuming total current draw (including the TV) is less than 150W, can I use the same inverter?

Advice appreciated.



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[steve_cronin]

I used this set-up on the boat with a Glomex Aerial some years ago and it worked much better than just using a TV receiving analogue signals. It was in the early days of terrestrial digital (Yes I was one of those who BOUGHT an OnDigital box!) It took a few minutes to re-prog. the box to the IoW transmitter but then no problems. We used a 12 volt TV. However, connecting a home 14in TV to a 200watt quasi-sine wave inverter recently DID cause it to trip out. The start-up current required by some domestic TVs is much greater than their running consumption (the digibox wasn't a problem) so I would suggest an inverter rated at more tike 300 to 400 watts to accomodate start-up surges. Otherwise, enjoy your viewing "f tn" and UKHistory are good extra channels and ITV News has good weather charts but not as good as BBCNews24.

Steve Cronin

<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion

 

[Observer]

Steve,

Thanks for confirmation. Are you able to advise on the issue of turning off the inverter before starting engine?

(p.s. I rented an OnDigital box and after a year or so they stopped asking me to pay for it!)

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[andyball]

Switching off the inverter before starting cd be achieved with a relay that disconnects it when the engine circuit (warning lamps etc ) is live.....but you then have the (imo) possibly greater problem of it switching back on with a full load (your telly) already connected to the output. I broke a number of inverters this way driving a 220V 85W pump as power-cut back up via a 150W inverter (couldn't leave it permanently inverter driven since the non-sine wave inverter didn't turn the pump at full wack). Whatever; the manufacturers of that inverter claimed that was why it kept blowing them, though the type of load was probably to blame too.

Do they say why you must switch off before starting engines? it cd be aimed towards car users with just the single battery ? to stop the inverter getting as little as 9V during starting + associated sudden change of suuply voltage?.

I can't see a problem if you have the usual engine/domestic batteries & run it off the domestic one, except that cheap 150W inverters can't always cope with the start-up surge...as mentioned by steve cronin. You may not get much technical support for a £20 item; some would be tempted to try it & see ,then if it breaks take it back & get a refund.

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[Robin]

See my post on SB re early Xmas Present. We just obtained a 15" Bush Flat Screen LCD TV from Argos, very thin and runs DIRECT on 12v too as well as on mains 220v and mains via our inverter, all options tested Saturday. The TV is also multi-standard, PAL/SECAM so will work in France and these LCD screens use less power. On our ammeter it seems to take in practice just over 2A, say 2.5A even though the paper spec says 12v/48w. There are 10" and 13" LCD TVs around like Sharp Aquos but Sharp insist on an inverter (or warranty invalidated) even though the set runs on 12v DC. Sainsburys have a 15" Lodus at present at £299 (takes 12v) and the Argos Xmas catalogue has several from £350. Ours would have been £379 but we used our Nectar points and got it free! Be careful if you do go this route, although all seem to run on DC via their in-line converter some sets are not 12v and/or the connector on the set is not a simple easily available type. Many sets are not multi-standard either which may or may not be important..

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[colvic]

Yes they are good, we have been using a 12v LCD computer screen on the boat for almost 5 years BUT make sure the 12v outlet you use is stabalised, otherwise when running the engine the alternator output can peak at about 16v, especially with an adverc or other super charging system and then you get a blank screen! I think this is the reason why Sharp go the inverter route.

Phil

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[Observer]

The instruction manual contains the following:

After some time, it may be necessary to start the car or boat in order to recharge the battery. At that moment, the inverter must be switched OFF beforehand in order to avoid damage due to excessive battery voltage.

I suppose the answer is - don't worry too much about a £20 component.

What about the basic rating though. The TV I'm looking at is rated 44W. Would the start up surge on that knock out a 150W inverter? The digital receiver is 24W so I should be able to run both comfortably on 150W if start-up doesn't cause a problem.

Thanks for advice.

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[andyball]

sounds like they just want to avoid the start-up change in voltage- so prob not an issue with separate starter battery.

Obviously I'm guessing,not having used that brand, but wd be surprised if a 44W telly + 24W decoder didn't start up ok with even a cheapy inverter. Have heard of some cheap ones getting poor picture on tv's, but they shd have got much better in recent years now huge numbers are being made.

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[Observer]

Yes. I saw that post. Looks like a nice unit. However, I don't have an obvious place to mount a 15" LCD screen but do have a purpose-built locker which is (I hope) just big enough for a 14" CRT TV.

I suppose the other possibility is to install a much higher rated inverter to feed all the mains outlets on the boat. But then I have to think about total power consumption and battery capacity.

Just looking for an easy answer to fitting a larger mains only TV. I've found that Thomson do a AC/DC 14" TV but it's too big for the locker.

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[colvic]

Your 150watt inverter is going to draw in excess of 12 amps when running at almost full load, and will require decent ventilation to get rid of the heat.

There are 12v TV's with a 14" screen available, I think one supplier is Thompson. Also, have you tried a caravan shop?


Phil

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[Observer]

Andy,

I forgot that engine starting battery is separate so won't be a problem - except second engine starts on domestic bank so problem appears again.

Anyway, thanks for reassurance. If the TV fits in the locker I think I'll give it a go on the basis that the worst I can do is knacker a £20 inverter.






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[Robin]

The LCD ones are thin enough to be bulkhead mounted, also a lot lighter than CRT. Our 15" one is 38cm high x 38.3 cm wide about 6cm thick without the stand or 17.2cm deep with the stand. Have a look at www.transleisure.co.uk for a range of travel TVs CRT and LCD, but their prices are high I think. There are 10" and 13" LCDs, some can be roof mounted and fold down for use, the picture realigns to be right way up!



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[Robin]

Thanks for the warning, though in practice our engine would only go on when the TV was safely stowed away. We were plugged into shorepower when I tested the set, so probably about 13.6v at that time but it can go to 14.4v max, however normally if we are plugged in I would use it on 220v, 12v would be used at anchor.

I tried a Hauphaug USB TV card on our laptop last year without success, it worked well for varying times but eventually would freeze the computer, despite downloading all the latest software/drivers for it. I gave up in the end and took it back, but I do know people have got them to work OK.

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[colvic]

Yes. We used a Pinancle one which was very handy with its auto tune as we sailed about the Med round Spain. Had a fixed amplifieng aerial which was OK but preferred to be pointing roughly in the direction of the transmitter. Also the card gave more choices for different countries and systems. We were running Win 98SE. Here in UK we run XP but I do prefer 98 as it seems more capable of running a variety of programmes.

You could always check out www.Dabbs.com as they have a large range of LCD monitors/TV's. Have seen an 18" in use that was superb and at £340 seemed good value, especially when you consider that our LCD screen cost over £800 just 4 years ago.


Phil

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[andyball]

AIMS lab (used to,at least) make a stand-alone tv receiver that wd plug directly into a monitor with a pass-through for computer video. Came with a remote control + psu (ran on 12V anyway) & worked very well indeed w/o need for software/drivers. We used it when living in a small flat - no room for tv + decent pc monitor

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[Robin]

Yes the Bush TV we just got comes with a cable ready for use as a computer monitor too. Come to think of it that might mean it could be tax deductible... but how do you claim a tax refund for Nectar points!
I think maybe our problem with TV on the laptop was with the USB connection, maybe an internal card would have worked.

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[Robin]

I did do several 'searches' at the time (12 months ago) and only came up with the Hauphaug ones which PC World and others sell in either card or USB versions. The one you had sounds like it would have worked.

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[steve_cronin]

Those figures look about right for a 150watt but bigger ones aren't that more expensive and running 40% in start-up is better than running 85%. The TV I used was old tech and a lamp plugged into the same adaptor on the mains would dim when the on button was pressed.

AS to the requirement to switch off before starting the engine, i would say that this is bcause it might overload the inverter's input stabilisation when the full voltage came on following engine firing. This would not happen with a domestic/starter split as the domestic batteries don't suffer a voltage drop when the starter motor is running.

As to cost, a Victron Phoenix full sine wave rated 220watt is £157 but a 300watt is only £240. The difference widens much more as you go to higher outputs. Mobitronic quasi sine wave models, priced around what you have been looking at, are even closer in price at 150 and 300 watts.

Steve Cronin

<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion

 

[longjohnsilver]

Just a thought, but is there any way one of these can be connected to a chart plotter to give a big screen display?

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[andyball]

a google search revealed that aims lab went oob in '99.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.aver.com/products/tvtuner.shtml> aver</A> make external ones (scroll down the page a bit). Bit late for you I know.....

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