C08
Well-known member
Do insurers require a survey for a low value boat and what is this threshold? I assume different companies have different criteria. Also the type of boat construction wood, steel, concrete, GRP would come into it.
Insurance and surveys
- Thread starter C08
- Start date
Mudisox
Well-known member
Most harbours/marinas etc require 3rd party cover to £3m.
Then you have to ask yourself, can you live with/ or cover loss or damage to your own boat.
Survey for insurance cover is normally the reason to pay for a survey, unless you are happy to judge for yourself.
Then you have to ask yourself, can you live with/ or cover loss or damage to your own boat.
Survey for insurance cover is normally the reason to pay for a survey, unless you are happy to judge for yourself.
Refueler
Well-known member
Quite a few Insurers will accept a Letter from Boatyard stating boat is reasonably maintained and seaworthy.
Refueler
Well-known member
The requirement for Marinas / Mooring providers - is Wreck Recovery. 3rd Party cover is of course desired to cover any mishaps you may have ..
Basic Boat is a possibility ..
Sandy
Well-known member
Only an insurance company can answer that question.
dgadee
Well-known member
I have been told it is impossible to insure concrete boats except 3rd party. Is that true?
Wrecks in Granton after storm Babet were 3rd party (or at least one was). By the time they tried to remove them they were so full of mud that they couldn't be lifted.
Wrecks in Granton after storm Babet were 3rd party (or at least one was). By the time they tried to remove them they were so full of mud that they couldn't be lifted.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
That's not been the case in any marina i have stayed, my current one is typical:
third party liability cover for not less than
£3,000,000 (three million pounds sterling); and (iii) cover against wreck
removal and salvage
Previous one :
The Owner shall maintain third party insurance in respect of himself and each of his vehicles or vessels, his crew and agents, visitors and guests and sub-contractors in a sum of not less than £3,000,000 in respect of each accident or damage and in respect of each vessel adequate salvage insurance. Such insurance shall be affected and maintained in an Insurance office of repute and the Owner shall produce the policy or policies relating thereto to the Company on demand.
etc
Refueler
Well-known member
I wasn't questioning the 3 mill comment - I was adding that Marinas / Mooring providers state Wreck Recovery ... its one of the few specific items detailed.
Even your post shows that !!
Metalicmike
Active member
I am at the moment insured 3rd party as I have been making a lot of alterations to the boat. My insurer requested photographs of the Engine and Sea cocks before thy would offer insurance.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
You said "3rd Party cover is of course desired"
You have it the wrong way around, every marina i've been in requires 3rd party cover, some state wreck recovery, but not all. The example above, that does state wreck recovery, is from ABP, primarily a commercial port operator, so no surprise there.
Read the 2nd example i posted, no mention of wreck recovery.
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PaulRainbow
Well-known member
MDL, operates 20 marinas, no mention of wreck recovery:
11.3 The Owner shall maintain during the Berthing Agreement a suitable policy of insurance (with a reputable insurer) for public liability and
third-party liability in respect of claims for damage to persons and property in the sum of at least £3,000,000 for any one event.
11.4 MDL reserves the right to request a copy the insurance certificate to confirm these details relate to an active policy and the Owner must
provide the certificate within seven days of being requested to do so
Premier marinas operate 11 marinas, also no mention of wreck recovery.
11.3 The Owner shall maintain during the Berthing Agreement a suitable policy of insurance (with a reputable insurer) for public liability and
third-party liability in respect of claims for damage to persons and property in the sum of at least £3,000,000 for any one event.
11.4 MDL reserves the right to request a copy the insurance certificate to confirm these details relate to an active policy and the Owner must
provide the certificate within seven days of being requested to do so
Premier marinas operate 11 marinas, also no mention of wreck recovery.
Tranona
Well-known member
Increasingly so, but mostly if you are wanting to insure all risks, but some even require a survey for third party. Typical trigger points are new applications or new purchases and for existing clients 10 years or age - 40 and 50 years being common. While some insurers might accept a boatyard report or even self declaration for existing clients, the out of water survey by a professional is becoming the norm.
ylop
Well-known member
Visicover seem to allow you to DIY the report on condition (at least on certain combinations of parameters) provided you agree to do an annual out the water inspection - expect them to ask for proof at the time of any claim.
Refueler
Well-known member
Go mention to MDL that you do not have Wreck Recovery or Salvage as some term it, covered in your policy and see what they say ......
The fact is that reputable recognised Policy's have it in ... even Basic Boat has it ... wonder why ??
fredrussell
Well-known member
I think this is the only reliable approach. My current insurer doesn’t require a survey for boats less than 30 years old (or thereabouts, can’t remember exact number), whereas my previous insurer wanted a survey for any boat covered.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
This is wrong, as i said previously.
The requirement is for 3rd party cover. Very rarely do the terms and conditions require cover for wreck recovery.
No need to mention to MDL, Premier or any other marina what is and isn't covered in the policy, as long as it complies with their terms and conditions. The fact is, they do not stipulate wreck recovery cover.
Your statement above is backwards.
Alicatt
Well-known member
Mine too at the moment, trying to get organised to get the boat lifted to get some work done and get the survey done after that.
The insurance company ask for the seacocks to be less than 10 years old and they want pics of, engines. all seacocks, and bulkheads before they would even quote 3rd party
Refueler
Well-known member
Interesting .....
I had 3rd Party via Basic Boat for a number of years until boat left UK ... and BB never asked any photo's / clarification of condition other than my application form completion.
Here in Latvia - I had full cover for SR25 without any survey via German Insurance ... it lapsed and was not renewed - sadly as I cracked the keel to hull joint as another thread shows.
My Conq 38 has full cover insurance via Estonian Broker - German Underwriters - again with no survey ...
Refueler
Well-known member
Paul ..............
MDL ....
Lets look at the WHOLE of Section 11 and not edited ...
11 Your Liability and Insurance Requirements
11.1 The Owner will be responsible for all actions, proceedings, claims, damages, costs, expenses, losses and liabilities caused by or arising from any damage or injury suffered by any person or to any property where it was caused by: (i) an act, failure to act or omission by the Owner, the Owner’s crew, passengers, guests or persons carrying out work on the Boat by arrangement with the Owner or with the Owner’s consent; or (ii) any defect in the Boat, its gear, equipment or other property used or stored on the Boat or brought into the Marina by the Owner, the Owner’s crew, passengers, guests or persons carrying out work on the Boat by arrangement with the Owner or with the Owner’s consent(whether or not such defect is known to the Owner). If MDL suffer any loss or liabilities due to any such act, failure to act, omission or defect then the Owner will be liable to make payment to MDL to make good the loss suffered by MDL. The Owner hereby waives any rights it may have, under any Implied Terms, to limit or cap its liability under or in connection with this clause 11.1.
11.2 The Owner acknowledges and agrees that the Owner’s liability in clause 11.1 above shall be uncapped and, for the avoidance of doubt, extends to loss or damage caused by any defect in the Boat, its gear, equipment or other property used or stored on the Boat or brought into the Marina by the Owner, the Owner’s crew, passengers, guests or persons carrying out work on the Boat by arrangement with the Owner or with the Owner’s consent, whether or not such defect is known to the Owner.
11.3 The Owner shall maintain during the Berthing Agreement a suitable policy of insurance (with a reputable insurer) for public liability and third-party liability in respect of claims for damage to persons and property in the sum of at least £5,000,000 for any one event.
11.4 MDL reserves the right to request a copy the insurance certificate to confirm these details relate to an active policy and the Owner must provide the certificate within seven days of being requested to do so.
11.5 The Owner hereby waives its rights under the Implied Terms, and acknowledges and agrees that:
11.5.1 the Implied Terms are, to the fullest extent permitted, excluded from this Berthing Agreement;
11.5.2 no statutory right to limit or cap liability under the Implied Terms shall operate to reduce the Owner’s liability in respect of this clause 11.
11.6 This clause 11 shall survive termination or expiry of this Berthing Agreement.
Fine - they do not WORD Wreck Recovery .... but would you not agree that such action is required if claim made ? Why would Insurance Policy's name such action ??
Unlike you - I actually asked MDL - confirmed they would require 'salvage' to be covered by the policy and that they do not 'word' it themselves - unlike some other Marina's I know who DO state it in contract - because its covered in 11.1 and 11.2. Also - the 3mill has been increased to 5mill according to the Terms and Conditions sent to me TODAY based on my communication with them about this subject. Seems I may have a more up to date version ?
MDL also refer to Merchant Shipping Act Section 185 and in particular Section 7.
Section 7 refers to Salvage in specifics as well as other matters ....
In their Terms and Conditions : Section 1 Implied Terms.
Further : When I changed my Insurance for the SR25 while berthed in HYCo, South Coast - I made sure that the new Insurance was acceptable to the HYCo. The main point Richard made - was that it MUST have Wreck Recovery as well as 3rd Party liability to cover any and all damages.
Paul ... just sit back and taker a breath for a minute .. and think about the consequences of not coverage for Wreck Recovery / Salvage ..... forget the Red corner vs Blue Corner Forum tussle we normally have .. which usually ensues whether good natured or not ...
MDL ....
Lets look at the WHOLE of Section 11 and not edited ...
11 Your Liability and Insurance Requirements
11.1 The Owner will be responsible for all actions, proceedings, claims, damages, costs, expenses, losses and liabilities caused by or arising from any damage or injury suffered by any person or to any property where it was caused by: (i) an act, failure to act or omission by the Owner, the Owner’s crew, passengers, guests or persons carrying out work on the Boat by arrangement with the Owner or with the Owner’s consent; or (ii) any defect in the Boat, its gear, equipment or other property used or stored on the Boat or brought into the Marina by the Owner, the Owner’s crew, passengers, guests or persons carrying out work on the Boat by arrangement with the Owner or with the Owner’s consent(whether or not such defect is known to the Owner). If MDL suffer any loss or liabilities due to any such act, failure to act, omission or defect then the Owner will be liable to make payment to MDL to make good the loss suffered by MDL. The Owner hereby waives any rights it may have, under any Implied Terms, to limit or cap its liability under or in connection with this clause 11.1.
11.2 The Owner acknowledges and agrees that the Owner’s liability in clause 11.1 above shall be uncapped and, for the avoidance of doubt, extends to loss or damage caused by any defect in the Boat, its gear, equipment or other property used or stored on the Boat or brought into the Marina by the Owner, the Owner’s crew, passengers, guests or persons carrying out work on the Boat by arrangement with the Owner or with the Owner’s consent, whether or not such defect is known to the Owner.
11.3 The Owner shall maintain during the Berthing Agreement a suitable policy of insurance (with a reputable insurer) for public liability and third-party liability in respect of claims for damage to persons and property in the sum of at least £5,000,000 for any one event.
11.4 MDL reserves the right to request a copy the insurance certificate to confirm these details relate to an active policy and the Owner must provide the certificate within seven days of being requested to do so.
11.5 The Owner hereby waives its rights under the Implied Terms, and acknowledges and agrees that:
11.5.1 the Implied Terms are, to the fullest extent permitted, excluded from this Berthing Agreement;
11.5.2 no statutory right to limit or cap liability under the Implied Terms shall operate to reduce the Owner’s liability in respect of this clause 11.
11.6 This clause 11 shall survive termination or expiry of this Berthing Agreement.
Fine - they do not WORD Wreck Recovery .... but would you not agree that such action is required if claim made ? Why would Insurance Policy's name such action ??
Unlike you - I actually asked MDL - confirmed they would require 'salvage' to be covered by the policy and that they do not 'word' it themselves - unlike some other Marina's I know who DO state it in contract - because its covered in 11.1 and 11.2. Also - the 3mill has been increased to 5mill according to the Terms and Conditions sent to me TODAY based on my communication with them about this subject. Seems I may have a more up to date version ?
MDL also refer to Merchant Shipping Act Section 185 and in particular Section 7.
Section 7 refers to Salvage in specifics as well as other matters ....
In their Terms and Conditions : Section 1 Implied Terms.
Further : When I changed my Insurance for the SR25 while berthed in HYCo, South Coast - I made sure that the new Insurance was acceptable to the HYCo. The main point Richard made - was that it MUST have Wreck Recovery as well as 3rd Party liability to cover any and all damages.
Paul ... just sit back and taker a breath for a minute .. and think about the consequences of not coverage for Wreck Recovery / Salvage ..... forget the Red corner vs Blue Corner Forum tussle we normally have .. which usually ensues whether good natured or not ...
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Geoff A
Member
With the greatest respect I would like to know the names of the insurance companies that accept boat yard letters. My new to me boat built in 1973. I think I must have contacted nearly every insurance companies that have ever been mentioned on this forum and a few that have not. There was not one I found that would insure a boat fully comp on the strength of a boat yard letter. In the end I went third party only with a well known company. Over this year I will be getting the boat surveyed and insured fully comp.