Instrumentaion

[rogerthebodger]

For a mechanical steering a simple type of rudder position indicator is this type.

http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=00385

having twin hydraulic steering I made rudder indicators using LM3914 bar-graph voltmeter

As far a instrument/chart plotter at help I have a 12vdc pc and display at my nav station with a second display at help (removable) and using Navmonpc and openCPN.

A wireless mouse allows me to drive display from helm. I have retained my old simrad IS11 instruments for redundancy, mounted on bulkhead port side of companionway.

 

[Norman_E]

I see what you're saying, but more displays allow you to see more things at once. ....................
Pete

Pete, I agree with that. I wrote the article on installing NMEA 2000 instruments that appeared in PBO October 2013 issue. You will see that I have installed multiple displays. I choose which screens to display according to where I am sailing. Close inshore or anywhere that I don't know that there is considerable depth, I put depth on the Garmin GMi 10 and wind on the B&G. The latter can also be set to scroll through a set of pre-defined screens. The plotter gives me a chart plus COG & SOG, or a rolling road if I am following a route and want that instead. If I was buying instruments now I would put another B&G triton in place of the Garmin GMi 10 at the starboard helm and would want a B&G Zeus plotter instead of the Actisense one because the Actisense screen brightness is not really good enough for sunlight viewing. I cannot do a swap because the smallest B&G Zeus is marginally too big for the space available.

 

[prv]

In summary, the plan to put lots of engine instruments and practically no sailing / navigation instruments in the cockpit is eccentric. But self-build boats often are eccentric - especially, forgive me, when built by people will limited sailing experience. And yachts 40 or 50 years ago often didn't have cockpit instruments beyond a steering compass, so it's not as if they're essential, just convenient. Do whatever seems appropriate

Pete

 

[coopec]

Roger

Thanks for that link and your advice.

"Awareness of the rudder angle is an important safety factor. This is especially true while moving in and out of your berth, drawing alongside another boat, picking up a skier, mooring, or any other "close call" situation. Davis' Rudder Position Indicator gives instant visual reference of rudder angle."

My sentiments exactly and I will be installing a rudder direction indicator.although it will be "off the shelf".
I will have a chart plotter and display at the Navigation Station with a second display in the cockpit just as you have. The cockpit displays will be removable!! (To have them fixed is just inviting trouble)

I use AIS at home on my PC and I don't know why I can't use a PC with suitable software to do all my navigation instead of buying a dedicated chart plotter (maybe they will be dinosaurs in 5 years)

 

[coopec]

, the plan to put lots of engine instruments and practically no sailing / navigation instruments in the cockpit is eccentric. But self-build boats often are eccentric - especially, forgive me, when built by people will limited sailing experience.

It would be ludicrous to think about sailing/navigation instruments while the yacht is under construction as the advances in technology are enormous and on going. But I don't expect you to understand that as you probably have never built a yacht.

 

[prv]

It would be ludicrous to think about sailing/navigation instruments while the yacht is under construction as the advances in technology are enormous and on going. But I don't expect you to understand that as you probably have never built a yacht?

I haven't built a yacht, and though I love designing the yacht I would build, I know I never will because it would simply take too much time. Maybe if I won the lottery I would hire a naval architect to turn my sketches into a proper design, and a yard to build it, with a lot of input from me during fit-out because I'm very particular about details. But otherwise I'll stick with refitting and modifying second-hand boats and never build a yacht myself. I admire those who do, though, and I didn't mean to offend you.

I'm well aware that technology changes fast, and that electronics are the very last thing you should buy during a build. But from the fact that you're talking about fitting instruments, and building a little panel for them to live in, I assumed that the boat was practically complete and you were just working on the finishing touches. That is, I assumed you were at the stage where it is now time to buy the instruments.

If that's not the case, then the best thing to do is take Will's advice, and build in a panel on which you can fit any instruments when the time comes. Indeed, if you make the panel removable then you can easily rearrange and replace them if you upgrade ten years later. I've just done exactly this with the new nav station I'm building - most of it is in solid cherry, but the electronics sit in a rebated-in panel of grey Foamex board (backed with ply for strength). If somebody invents the next must-have gadget in five years' time and I want to fit one, I can buy another sheet of grey foamex, break out the router, and have a new instrument layout in an afternoon. But even if not readily removable, a chunk of cockpit real-estate where you plan to mount some kind of plotter, or a row of instruments, would be more sensible than saying you're just going to plug a portable echo-sounder into the side of the binnacle and balance the display on top.

Pete

 

[Buck Turgidson]

It would be ludicrous to think about sailing/navigation instruments while the yacht is under construction as the advances in technology are enormous and on going. But I don't expect you to understand that as you probably have never built a yacht.

This from the guy installing 3 flashing LEDs before working out what they are supposed to indicate!

I haven't built a yacht but I have spent nearly 30 years in the cockpit of some of the most complicated and advanced large aircraft and I can assure you nobody throws indications at a panel then wonders what to do with them.

You need to analyse what information you NEED at each phase of sailing and then prioritise that information. Then think about the ergonomics of the cockpit space, the format of display and only then layout, test and reanalyse where your instrumentation should be.

Personally I would question why you think you need any engine instruments in your primary field of view given that the engine is the auxiliary power.

 

[theoldsalt]

"Awareness of the rudder angle is an important safety factor. This is especially true while moving in and out of your berth, drawing alongside another boat, picking up a skier, mooring, or any other "close call" situation. Davis' Rudder Position Indicator gives instant visual reference of rudder angle."

True, but this is intuitive to the helmsman. I have never found the need for a rudder position indicator. You should be looking around you when steering not at a rudder angle indicator. You don't need one for steering a car to show wheel angle so why on a boat? Yes necessary on ships and motorboats with outdrives (outdrive angle not rudder angle) but not small sailing craft.

 

[prv]

I don't know why I can't use a PC with suitable software to do all my navigation instead of buying a dedicated chart plotter

You can. Personally I prefer the dedicated hardware, but lots of people are happy with PC systems. OpenCPN is a popular choice of software, free, and constantly being updated.

Standard LCD displays are not much good outside, they're unreadable in sunlight, but you can get special bright ones for a price. Obviously they want to be waterproof.

I would expect a PC to draw more power than a dedicated plotter, but I guess you can probably buy some pretty frugal hardware these days so the gap may be closing.

My sentiments exactly and I will be installing a rudder direction indicator.

Don't forget that the sentiments you're agreeing with are the sentiments of somebody trying to sell you a rudder direction indicator . But each to their own.

I use AIS at home on my PC

Presumably this is pulling AIS data from the Internet? Obviously that's not going to work at sea, but you can get USB AIS receivers which software like OpenCPN will work with. Might be a good idea to consider the aerial arrangements for VHF and AIS while you're still building the boat?

Pete

 

[theoldsalt]

I prefer to navigate from the cockpit not the chart table. The chart table is for passage planning.

Yes, use a laptop for planning but I certainly would not use one in the cockpit. So I have a chartplotter under the spray hood.

 

[prv]

I prefer to navigate from the cockpit not the chart table. The chart table is for passage planning.

Yes, use a laptop for planning but I certainly would not use one in the cockpit. So I have a chartplotter under the spray hood.

I make a distinction between navigation and pilotage.

For something like a Channel crossing, I navigate at the chart table with a paper chart, a Yeoman plotter, and an old Garmin GPS. There's also a basic cockpit display wired into this system which can display distance and bearing to waypoint or similar simple data. Near the shipping lanes, I would also be using the cockpit AIS and (in poor vis) radar displays.

For coastal sailing, which is more pilotage, I use a plotter in the cockpit. I still tend to put the appropriate chart on the table because it feels wrong not to, but that habit may fade in time (I've only started using plotters relatively recently).

Around the Solent, I'm happy with just a depth gauge - I can see where I am and I know where to avoid.

Pete

 

[coopec]

This from the guy installing 3 flashing LEDs before working out what they are supposed to indicate!

r.

I would install the LEDs and the wiring to the switchboard so that down the track I didn't have to remove the binnacle and the cabin headlining (that would be a hideous job) to instal an alarm. ( I am quite sure the electrical harness in your car has provision for installing additional components.)

 

[coopec]

T

Personally I would question why you think you need any engine instruments in your primary field of view given that the engine is the auxiliary power.

So when you've cooked your motor you go down below to see what the problem is, maybe a burst water hose, and the motor has been destroyed. "I thought I could smell something burning!!" GEE!!

 

[coopec]

If that's not the case, then the best thing to do is take Will's advice, and build in a panel on which you can fit any instruments when the time comes. Indeed, if you make the panel removable then you can easily rearrange and replace them if you upgrade ten years later. I.

Pete

Boats have used motors for over 100 years and will continue to do so. To effectively monitor a motor's performance you need a RPM (revolutions per minute) gauge, oil pressure gauge and a water temperature gauge (to measure the engine coolant water temperature) . (that would be the bare minimum) That is not going to change in the life of my yacht so I am installing them permanently now.

 

[coopec]

Yes, use a laptop for planning but I certainly would not use one in the cockpit. So I have a chartplotter under the spray hood.

Of course no one in their right mind would use a laptop in a cockpit environment but why not a remote display in the cockpit as Rogershaw does?

 

[coopec]

Fair enough.

What about the connection to the transducer? Of course this can be plugged in and out as well, but don't forget it.

Pete

Geeez. Hadn't thought about that !! LOL

Please don't be so patronizing

 

[prv]

Boats have used motors for over 100 years and will continue to do so. To effectively monitor a motor's performance you need a RPM (revolutions per minute) gauge, oil pressure gauge and a water temperature gauge (to measure the engine coolant water temperature) . (that would be the bare minimum) That is not going to change in the life of my yacht so I am installing them permanently now.

Sure. I'm talking about the sailing and navigation instruments, which change rapidly, as you yourself said in post 25.

Pete

 

[prv]

So when you've cooked your motor you go down below to see what the problem is?

If the alarm goes off I look at the panel to see what the problem is. In our old boat the panel was in the cabin, just inside the hatch, which is perhaps not ideal but quite common in older boats.

Most sailing boats do not have oil pressure or temperature gauges, just alarms. Many do not have RPM gauges; our old one didn't when we bought her, I fitted it. Please understand that I'm not advocating this as a good idea, just stating a fact. Obviously having those gauges could be very reassuring, say if you were running the engine at max chat to overcome a strong tide through a harbour entrance, it would be nice to see the temperature remaining steady. It just strikes us here as odd that you are focussing so intently on engine gauges and little else, when to most of us they're not a big part of how we use our boats.

Pete

 

[William_H]

Coopec you seem to be doing a lot of planning for this new boat. We don't know how much experience you have. Of course you need to keep track of and control of your new engine. Regarding navigation I get sea sick so would always navigate from the helm position not inside apart from the fact that if you are nervous then you will want to be outside looking around. Really my best advice would be to get the boat in the water and get some use out of it. This will show you fairly quickly what you need. and more importantly what kind of sailing you will do. Sailing around Fremantle is a bit peculiar. My sailing tends to be short and local so that by now I know where everything is and would never look at a chart or plotter. Even to the local islands.I do use an Eterx for finding buoys in the dark or passage monitoring to Rottnest. But if you really want to voyage you need weeks to travel north or south to tropical places or the opposite. A plotter would be good then. I am sure you have great dreams and I hope they come to fruition. My dreams just shrunk into very enjoyable sailing on the Swan. (like a night race last night just georgeous).
Regarding a ketch. I have a friend at EFYC who sailed around the world in 5 years in a a 5o ft ketch. During the voyage they removed the mizen mast just not used.
good luck olewill

 

[coopec]

Regarding a ketch. I have a friend at EFYC who sailed around the world in 5 years in a a 5o ft ketch. During the voyage they removed the mizen mast just not used.
good luck olewill

William, thanks for your post. Regarding the ketch configuration I once said to Steve Hartley at Taskers (who for the benefit of non-local people is the Chief Sail-maker there) that I had misgivings about my choice of Ketch configuration. He was startled and said in no uncertain terms "there is nothing wrong with a ketch, people just don't know how to sail them" Whether that is right or wrong I don't know but I do know they look very pretty!!