Instrumentaion

[coopec]

View attachment 40117
I am trying to finalize my instrumentation before I fix the instrument binnacle permanently. I have a Perkins 4-108 with a BW velvet drive and wet exhaust installed in a 43ft Roberts ketch that I am building. Of course I have a tacho, water temperature and oil pressure gauges. I would like to fit a rudder angle gauge but two experienced boaties reckon they are not necessary - your advice please.
I am going to install 3 LED warning flashing lights while I am at it. One could be for a exhaust temperature, another for Raw Water inlet pressure (?) and one for.......

 

[prv]

I would like to fit a rudder angle gauge but two experienced boaties reckon they are not necessary - your advice please.

Do you have hydraulic steering or mechanical?

If mechanical, the wheel should always be in the same place with the rudder central. So the standard solution is to mark the wheel with a turk's head (or PVC tape for the uncultured ).

With hydraulic systems, the slight leakage of oil between the two sides of the pump means that the wheel position for rudder amidships will drift over time, and there's no point marking the wheel. In that case, an indicator is very useful.

If you fit a Raymarine autopilot controller then it includes a rudder angle display - others may do as well, I don't know.

Pete

 

[prv]

My other observation is that you only seem to be considering engine instruments - what about depth, a compass, speed, wind, radar, AIS, a plotter... ? Not saying you necessarily need to fit all of these directly in front of the wheel on an instrument panel like the bridge of the Starship Enterprise, but most people would consider the first two fairly essential at the helm position. With a new boat of this size, and a self-build you have total control over, it would seem eccentric not to have the others visible from the cockpit/wheelhouse as well.

Pete

 

[coopec]

Pete

The steering will be mechanical - cable within a conduit. OK so I don't need a rudder indicator gauge- thanks (I do intend installing an autopilot some time down the track) Now, should I cut 4 holes for gauges?

 

[coopec]

Pete

I have pedestal steering so I'd mount my steering compass there. I have a depth sounder mount on top of the binnacle and a power supply on the side of the binnacle. I imagine the depth sounder would be stored below when in blue water. Now, I am a novice having only sailed socially but I reason it is not a racing yacht so I have a hand held wind speed meter and surely a GPS would tell me what speed I am doing? I have a chart table/instrument panel below and that's where I planned to have AIS and chart plotter. Apparently many of these units have provision for remote display?
If I install radar that of course would need a display visible from the helm.

 

[prv]

I have pedestal steering so I'd mount my steering compass there.

Fair enough.

I have a depth sounder mount on top of the binnacle and a power supply on the side of the binnacle.

What about the connection to the transducer? Of course this can be plugged in and out as well, but don't forget it.

I imagine the depth sounder would be stored below when in blue water.

I suppose you could, though it's a bit of an odd arrangement. Instruments are generally designed to be flush-mounted onto a dashboard or bulkhead, the back may not even be waterproof. So you'd need to make a box if you want to make it portable. By all means have a switch to turn it off to save a small amount of power in deep water, though most people don't bother, but I've not come across a demountable sounder for decades.

I reason it is not a racing yacht so I have a hand held wind speed meter

You're right that wind instruments are not essential for sailing the boat - my previous boat didn't have one, just a burgee at the masthead. But a lot of people like to have a wind arrow in the cockpit as well. If you do decide to rely on just a masthead vane or flag to sail by, don't forget some kind of lighting for it! This hadn't occurred to me the first time I took that boat out at night, and I suddenly realised I couldn't see where the wind was and had to sail by feel.

surely a GPS would tell me what speed I am doing?

Yes - though you haven't mentioned any display for that either!

There are still benefits to a water-speed log. Firstly as an aid to trimming the boat to sail as fast as possible - it's more responsive than GPS, and it shows how fast you're making the boat go, ignoring the effects of currents. I don't know how much tidal stream you get in your part of the world, but here it can be significant.

Secondly, having both speed over the ground (from GPS) and speed through the water allows you to calculate the tidal stream - either manually or done automatically by interconnected instruments.

Thirdly, if your GPS fails, the system as a whole fails or is turned off, or some atmospheric disturbance means it's temporarily unavailable to you, then an accurate log reading of how far you've travelled is the basis of traditional navigation without GPS.

I have a chart table/instrument panel below and that's where I planned to have AIS and chart plotter. Apparently many of these units have provision for remote display?

I guess for ocean sailing it doesn't really matter where things are, as navigation takes place in very slow time and you won't be behind the wheel anyway. But for coastal sailing I would suggest that you want both of these things in the cockpit where you can see them. Having chart plotters in the cabin is an unthinking hang-over from when we used to navigate with pencil on paper, and needed to be sitting at a table in the dry. None of this applies to chart plotters, so they can be in the cockpit where you actually control the boat from.

If I install radar that of course would need a display visible from the helm.

So you want radar on deck (which I agree with) but would put AIS down below? Surely they're used in the same way, often together, so belong in the same place?

BTW, there are essentially no leisure radars now built with their own screens. They plug into the corresponding manufacturer's plotter. Most people also display AIS on the plotter, though my own preference is for a Vesper Watchmate (made in NZ ) display.

Pete

 

[Graham_Wright]

If mechanical, the wheel should always be in the same place with the rudder central. So the standard solution is to mark the wheel with a turk's head (or PVC tape for the uncultured ).

±360° (or 720°).

 

[prv]

±360° (or 720°).

Sure, but if you're that far over then you ought to know about it.

Pete

 

[Norman_E]

I know that people say that you do not need a wind instrument on a sailing boat, and they are right that it is not essential, but it is very useful, and if you are going to fit an autopilot it becomes essential if you want the autopilot to hold a constant course relative to wind direction. My own experience from having tried out and played with a lot of the sailing instruments on the market is that the best small multifunction display is the B&G Triton. I also recommend you to look at the B&G Zeus range of chartplotters cum sailing instruments. I would fit one if I had space. On a new build there is little point in fitting multiple instruments for depth, log, GPS, and wind when a single instrument like the B&G Triton will display them all with the transducers all connected to the NMEA2000 bus. As an aside a hand held wind meter is not a lot of use, especially as wind speed at masthead level is usually greater than at deck level, and direction is a very handy thing to display on a screen instead of having to crane your neck to see the masthead windex. The latter gives you accurate apparent direction, but on my boat you have to get behind the bimini to see it.

 

[prv]

On a new build there is little point in fitting multiple instruments for depth, log, GPS, and wind when a single instrument like the B&G Triton will display them all with the transducers all connected to the NMEA2000 bus.

I see what you're saying, but more displays allow you to see more things at once. And if (say) depth is always in the same physical place in the cockpit, then your eye instinctively goes there when you suddenly realise you're heading towards the putty. I don't know how depth is displayed on a B&G plotter, but if it involves pressing any buttons or looking in different places depending on mode, then it's not as good as a big dedicated physical display at the front of the cockpit.

There's also a certain amount of one-basketry involved in the "all on one display" approach. I don't subscribe to the degree of electronic paranoia and distrust that seems common on these forums, but on our first proper trip last season we did discover that the whole Seatalk bus had gone haywire (actually burning out the PCB in one of the instruments). I was able to quickly run a temporary power line to the ST60 depth instrument, and unplug it from the rest of the system, so that we had depth available. I isolated everything else (except the VHF on its separate circuit) and we were able to continue our trip quite happily.

Pete

 

[coopec]

In view of the incredible advances in electronic technology I am reluctant to instal "3 in 1" or multifunction devices - I'd rather keep my options open. For that same reason I really don't want to install devices permanently as though they will still be there in ten years.
Maybe the answer is to mount them on the pedestal?

"Edson Vision Series Instrument & Display Housings w/ 2 Ball Mounts protect the back of the displays and allow Pedestal, Overhead, Deck/Bulkhead, Console, and Pod Arm Mounting Options. The compact design of the new LCD Radars make them ideal for use in the cockpits of sailboats. However, their mounting options are limited and critical wiring is often exposed. Edson Vision Series Medium Radar/Chartplotter or the Instrument Housing adds a ship-shape appearance, protect the back of the displays, and provide a more robust mount.

Provides a robust mount for radar and chartplotter displays
Conceals and protects instrument wiring
UV-resistant -- won't fade or crack
Available for both single and 3-sail instrument bundles

 

[coopec]

"but I've not come across a demountable sounder for decades"

I'd worry about leaving expensive electronic instruments (radar, AIS, depth sounders etc) on deck while the yacht is unattended. (Maybe British people are a lot more honest than Australians?)

 

[William_H]

What I would suggest is that the binnacle be made witha removable falt panel where instruments mount. Over time your needs for different instruments is going to change so you cna simply get a new flat panel and cut holes as necessary. if the panel is part of the binnacle you don't have this flexibilty. good luck olewill

 

[coopec]

Thanks William

I have a piece of white polycarbonate 8mm thick to mount the instruments on which slides out of the binnacle (no bolting needed). There is a perspex sealed window on the front of the binnacle to protect the instruments. Since you guys can't think of a 4th gauge I'll just leave room for another gauge which I might find I need in the future. I'm going to mount 4 LED warning lights (I don't know what for at this stage) and lead wiring to the chart table/instrument panel so that in the future I won't have to remove the binnacle and cabin headlining to install an alarm

 

[nigelmercier]

Since you guys can't think of a 4th gauge ...

Fuel level?

 

[coopec]

Nigel

I thought of that but my (X2) tanks are irregular shaped. My intuition tells me you would only get an acceptable reading in a pen or at anchor on a flat sea. I though of a sight glass but then read a lot of marinas won't allow you in if you have them. I've decided to use a graduated dip stick

 

[Graham_Wright]

Sure, but if you're that far over then you ought to know about it.

Pete

If you are alongside and the wheel has been used as a handhold it could be anywhere. I always like to know what will happen when the prop first turns.

As a gadget freak, I have a series of LEDs operated by a rotary switch on top of the rudder stock.

4 reds, 1 white and 4 green. (I know, I know it's over the top!).

 

[coopec]

I did a course on boat handling and we all had to bring a 28T fishing boat into a wharf and also use a spring to leave the wharf. Surprisingly we all managed it (after a fashion) I know even the instructor really worked the rudder and throttle to bring the vessel alongside. I think that is when you could get a bit confused.
I have just read that a Swanson 42's wheel is three turns lock-to-lock and the skipper says although the wheel is quite large the gearing needs to be lower. Further reading suggests if I want to add an auto-pilot it should be 5 turns lock-to-lock

 

[prv]

If you are alongside and the wheel has been used as a handhold it could be anywhere. I always like to know what will happen when the prop first turns.

Thinking about it, I suppose I centre up the wheel before we get going. We have just over two turns lock-to-lock, so if the centre marker is on top but the rudder's not central, then we're very near one end of travel. Swinging the wheel a little to each side will find that end if it's there, and I can turn back to the centre.

Not saying that people shouldn't have rudder indicators, just that they're not essential with mechanical steering.

Pete

 

[coopec]

Pete

Yes I can see your point - it wouldn't take much to center the rudder and you would only do that when it matters. When I take off in my car I don't take particular note of my front wheels, if I hit the kerb I start working the steering wheel.