Inner forestay thoughts

Phoenix of Hamble

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I want to replace my standing rigging shortly, as its long overdue, and while i'm at it, i'm going to get a detachable inner forestay added...

I've got my own ideas of how i'm going to do it, but wanted to get some forum thoughts on the approach to see what other's reactions are, and test my thinking

I've got on the foredeck an enormous anchor locker, within which, on the back edge, sits a topless box that holds the anchor windlass... this is formed from about 6/7mm thick glass as you'd expect to hold a windlass.... what i'm thinking is to get a V shaped stainless brace made up from pretty substantial material, perhaps 4mm ish, which will sit on the back face of this box, through a small hole either side, down to the hull sides itself, where i'll have a bracket on the ends of the V that are glassed to the hull... this will be pretty substantial as a mounting point and transfer the loads nicely between the deck and hull... it would make the mounting point probably about 3' back from the forestay....

I am looking to have a slutter/solent style stay, from a few inches below the main forestay down to this point, short enough to take back to a chain plate and then a heavy duty block and tackle to put it under tension with a built in jammer on the lower block

I will use this stay to obviously provide additional support for the mast, but mainly to fly a storm sail from.. the blocks meaning it will need to be flown quite high.... i'd also like the option to fly a staysail in the future, and having a yankee made up as an alternative to the current genoa for the forestay...

Tracks wise, there is little point IMHO of putting a track in for a storm sail, as it will only ever be flown as one size, so intend to put a standing block in the appropriate place instead

If I fly a staysail, then again, I don't forsee it being a reefable sail (I would only want a small staysail), so with careful thought, might get away with the same standing block for the storm sail, maybe a second car for the existing genoa track (which is mounted quite a long way inboard already)... trial and error on that one I feel.

I'll also need to get an extra halyard fitted... I only have two halyards currently... a genoa and spinny... and the spinny halyard wouldn't really be led very well I think... another thing that needs checking..

so....

Is 3' back too far for the stay?, too little?, too much of a compromise?

Is a block and tackle going to be man enough, or should I resort to a more traditional highfield lever approach? will the block mean that I need to set the staysail too high?.... if I need a longer stay and then a lever, how do I manage the excess wire when its led back without destroying it?

Your thoughts?
 

sailorman

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I want to replace my standing rigging shortly, as its long overdue, and while i'm at it, i'm going to get a detachable inner forestay added...

I've got my own ideas of how i'm going to do it, but wanted to get some forum thoughts on the approach to see what other's reactions are, and test my thinking

I've got on the foredeck an enormous anchor locker, within which, on the back edge, sits a topless box that holds the anchor windlass... this is formed from about 6/7mm thick glass as you'd expect to hold a windlass.... what i'm thinking is to get a V shaped stainless brace made up from pretty substantial material, perhaps 4mm ish, which will sit on the back face of this box, through a small hole either side, down to the hull sides itself, where i'll have a bracket on the ends of the V that are glassed to the hull... this will be pretty substantial as a mounting point and transfer the loads nicely between the deck and hull... it would make the mounting point probably about 3' back from the forestay....

I am looking to have a slutter/solent style stay, from a few inches below the main forestay down to this point, short enough to take back to a chain plate and then a heavy duty block and tackle to put it under tension with a built in jammer on the lower block

I will use this stay to obviously provide additional support for the mast, but mainly to fly a storm sail from.. the blocks meaning it will need to be flown quite high.... i'd also like the option to fly a staysail in the future, and having a yankee made up as an alternative to the current genoa for the forestay...

Tracks wise, there is little point IMHO of putting a track in for a storm sail, as it will only ever be flown as one size, so intend to put a standing block in the appropriate place instead

If I fly a staysail, then again, I don't forsee it being a reefable sail (I would only want a small staysail), so with careful thought, might get away with the same standing block for the storm sail, maybe a second car for the existing genoa track (which is mounted quite a long way inboard already)... trial and error on that one I feel.

I'll also need to get an extra halyard fitted... I only have two halyards currently... a genoa and spinny... and the spinny halyard wouldn't really be led very well I think... another thing that needs checking..

so....

Is 3' back too far for the stay?, too little?, too much of a compromise?

Is a block and tackle going to be man enough, or should I resort to a more traditional highfield lever approach? will the block mean that I need to set the staysail too high?.... if I need a longer stay and then a lever, how do I manage the excess wire when its led back without destroying it?

Your thoughts?

What Class of Boat :D
 

LadyInBed

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I have been looking at another boat, that Sailorman was aware of, but its been sold while I prevaricated!)

Get the boat, then think about modifications when you have lived with it a bit.
You never know, whilst you are pondering over a boat that might also have now been sold, the next one that comes along might already have an inner fore-stay!
 

prv

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As far as sheet leads go, I read something the other day that should have been obvious but hadn't occurred to me: moving a sail up and down the stay does pretty much the same thing to the sheet lead as moving the block fore and aft.

This was advocated in the context of minimising specialist gear (deck track and cars, in this case) for repairability in remote places - the suggestion was to have a fixed deck block and an adjustable tack lanyard instead (needless to say, such people don't go in for roller gear). But it might be relevant to your setup as well.

Pete
 

Seajet

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Sounds to me like you've already approached it in a seamanlike way, the sheet-leads etc need to be proven, and of course the whole storm jib set-up tried and tested before it has to be used in anger.

A backstay tensioner may well be worth considering, and for alternate sheet leads a la barber-hauler, side opening blocks are always useful...
 

jerram

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Inner Forestay

Hi Morgana. I rigged my inner forestay with a highfield lever 900mm back from the furling genoa and use the genoa track with an extra genoa car fitted just for the stay sail, the tack is cut to be 600mm off the deck and the clew 1200mm off the deck shape a bit like a yankee this works well in a good 5 to 6, give balances to the sail plan and gets that rolled up genoa out of the way.




Remember never test the depth of water with both feet at the same time.
 

FullCircle

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Thoughts:

Exit and Sheave from mast must be close to current exit for forestay to prevent mast panting or pumping.

Special halyard run adapters available at all good riggers.

Storm jib should be flown high off the deck or it will scoop greenies as they come over the front.

Current genoa cars forward position should work for storm jib so no special blocks required.

Sailmaker advised that storm jobs are not close winded,, hence comment above.

To stow your rig when not in use, you could have a 300mm heavy wire strop or strip bracket so that you can shorten the forestay enough to be able to stow it, and still use the lever to a bracket in front of the shrouds.

Certain boats have a zip up bag fitted to prevent normal genoa sheet use snagging during a tack.

Use of block and tackle with tail led over coachroof to a winch is a compromise.

If converting for a proper Yankee/Staysail, check the need for a running backstay to either side (pain to tack)
 

Pinnacle

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Our boats are similar-ish, so my thoughts would be;

• Aft end of anchor locker is a good place to fix the eye/chainplate that will be the bottom fixing.
• Do you think just through bolting the chainplate to the bulkhead might be sufficiently strong?
• Will the stay be wire or dyneema?
• Multi purchase/winch-ability of some kind will be essential ( sail may be small, but in v strong winds, the loadings will still be significant ).
• Our mast has a pre-cut fixing point for the top of the inner forestay just below where the forestay fixes to mast top.

I have tried to load pics, but cant seem to!!! :mad: Mebbee IPC could do with some of your professional help!! ;):D
 

Phoenix of Hamble

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Thanks Pinnacle,

Yes, my masthead setup is identical, with the same 'cut out' for a forestay, so shouldn't be a problem... I think i'll have to put a 'run adaptor' on as Jim says for the existing halyard so that it works as a storm sail halyard (would be the equivalent of the yellow line in your pic), and then add a block and run another halyard for the spinny/cruising chute as you have in your pic (I already have the mast entry and exit slots for that)....

My anchor locker is about the same dimensions as yours, so position is probably about right. I don't however think i'll get away with just using the bulkhead, as the back of the windlass platform isn't a bulkhead... if you can imagine the anchor locker has a lip, and the windlass platform comes of the outer edge of this lip, so is about 3" in front of the bulkhead... its still pretty substantial, but i'd not want to risk it for a stay mount... it would however, make the mounting a lot easier compared to the bulkhead behind it, as that one is the forward bulkhead of the forward heads, which has an inner 'skin', so would mean cutting a hole in that skin to mount anything on it, which i'd rather not do unless I have to.... an alternative is to look at whether there is enough space between the windlass platform and the bulkead to put a plate in across the entire beam, and then bolt a padeye through the deck to that... again, a bit less tidy, but possibly easier!
 

jwilson

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Is a block and tackle going to be man enough, or should I resort to a more traditional highfield lever approach? will the block mean that I need to set the staysail too high?.... if I need a longer stay and then a lever, how do I manage the excess wire when its led back without destroying it?

Your thoughts?

I have fitted a block and tackle instead of a highfield lever to tension an inner forestay, and am happy that it gives enough purchase to set a storm jib on with a straightforward hard pull on the tail. You also have the option of taking the 4:1 purchase tail either round a cleat and then swigging (at least doubles the pull ), or if you really want tension to the anchor windlass drum, which could probably exert enough tension to break something.

The block and tackle means the wire is short enough to tie back to the chainplates without bending, and you have a spare block and tackle aboard for the 99.9% of the time you are not sailing under storm jib.
 

Phoenix of Hamble

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Thats a good idea... if the tackle wasn't enough with 'human' effort, then the windlass would be ideally situated.... I can't imagine that i'd need it though..... my concern was more with the length of the tackle... but i'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that a storm sail is the only viable use, and that a solent rig is just too much hassle to make it worth while
 
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