Inner Forestay - movable, furling or boomed?

[SueAndTom]

Our ketch originally had a boomed staysail on the inner forestay. For several reasons we removed the boom and sailed without the staysail at all for a couple of years. With the inner forestay in position, we found that this interfered on occasion with the sail on the outer forestay and would like to be able to move the inner forestay out of the way at these times.

First query: Does a movable forestay work?

Second query: With a sail back on the inner forestay, what would be the best arrangement?
1. Should we put a furling system on it?
2. Should we revert back to a boomed sail (is there any way to make the stay removable in this situation)?

Any opinions/experiences appreciated!

 

[dickh]

I have fitted a removable inner forestay for my storm jib. The stay is a spare (wire)genoa halliard which is snap shackled to a short wire strop from the mooring bollard(with an additional wire & turnbuckle to the stem internally to take the strain) and winched tight via a Lewmar clutch. The storm jib is hanked on with its own sheets led thro' dedicated blocks back to the genoa winch and I use the spinnaker halliard for hoisting the jib. I have never used it in anger, but when practicing it seems to work well.
I used a short strop for 2 reasons; to improve visibilty and because the spare halliard wasn't long enough.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[vyv_cox]

The first question must be whether your rig will survive before you connect, disconnect and reconnect forestays to suit your sail arrangement. Stays are basically there to hold the mast up, so be careful before taking them off for the sake of convenience.

There are several good methods of mounting a removable forestay. Perhaps the best I know is to make the forestay length suitable for attachment to wherever it will be mounted in the non-fitted position, say somewhere at the chainplates. Choose some method such as a pelican hook or adjustable tensioner and fit this to the forestay so that it will be pulled tight in the stowed position. Now make up a strop to fit between the stem and the end of the forestay. This gives a tidy arrangement whether stowed of in use. The jib can be arranged so that the tensioner is not in the way.

1. I cannot think of any way in which a modern reefing system could be used with a removable stay - the joints in the foil are too fragile to take the likely bending. There are probably ways in which a pair of swivels could be incorporated to let the sail furl, such systems have been around for best part of a century.
2. A boom could probably be incorporated in the removable forestay arrangement above, but I have no experience of it. Model racing yachts use a forestay boom that swivels on a fitting attached to the stem - could you do that?

 

[Guest]

There are various points in favour and also questioning the removal / type of stay .....

a) Is it a normal feature of this design / model to have an inner stay ?
b) Would removal of it cause problems for the mast in lack of forward support ?
c) Is the boom able to be altered to stowing type without too much hassle ?
d) Does the boat sail better with or without the inner sail ?

Taking the points ... a) b) if it was designed with it in mind - then its wise to stick with it. My 1/4 ton cup boat was NOT designed with one, but now has one to stop the mast vibrating when sailing hard and also to let me shape the mast to change the roach of the main etc. c) is the boom connected to the stay tack or a fitting on the deck ? If its to the stay tack then it may be possible to swing it up in line with the stay and bring it back as one to the stowage point. d) this is the big decider !!

I for one find the 'twin foresail + ketch' design very appealing and also on most boats that I have experienced with this give excellent balance and so many variations on sail plan etc.

My question is really why change / What was wrong with the original design ?

 

[kgi]

Generally on the older boats that were built with a fixed inner stay it was designed as part of the rig, if you remove it in any type of sea the mast may start "pumping", and could lead to allsorts of problems, including the rig coming down. As for the boom on the staysail consider a Hoyt type boom as fitted on the island packets, its a lot more effecient than the floating variety..........keith

 

[bryantee]

have a look at www.coatesmarine.demon.co.uk and go to catalogue.then page18 fitting a stormsail stay. quite a lot of useful info on this web sitealso page 19

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by bryantee on 10/10/2002 19:00 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Twister_Ken]

Sounds like your boat was built as a cutter, and the rig will have been designed with both outer and inner forestays in the engineering equation. To take out the inner forestay might well put the mast at risk.

Sailing a cutter without the staysail does pose problems when tacking, as the yankee gets stuck behind the inner forestay. Apart from slowing everything down, it will also accelerate wear on the sail as it is dragged across the wire each time you tack. Tacking is much easier with the staysail in place and sheeted hard home, because it prevents the yankee being carried into the gap between the inner forestay and the mast.

In your deck shoes, I'd try and reinstate the cutter rig, but leave the staysail boomless, and even look at whether it is feasible to make the staysail self-tacking.