In search of unbiased opinion.

[Nigeldownes]

In search of unbiased opinion.

Thanks for the response to my first post; I asked if I should get a yacht despite my total lack of knowledge and most said it’s a stupid act, when does it arrive. Your advice whilst encouraging is also worrying, I thought I would get the voice of reason, until I spotted a trend “Biased opinion”.

I was advised by a member at the yacht club (one more trip tonight and I have all the signatures ha ha ha ha ha) to research a number of other craft. I promptly did so and discovered “owners groups” all of whom thought their craft the finest sailing vessels ever, perfect for the beginner on a budget. I asked people with Westerly’s if I should get a GK24. Based on the following reasons.

1) It looks good. Standard reply = “doesn’t it just”.
2) Its cheap. Standard reply = “indeed it is“.
3) It would look great with me in it. Standard reply = “Any one does”.
4) I can handle it as a beginner with a little experience. Standard reply = “Your so right“.
5) I think I can fix it. Standard reply = “we fix ours”
6) It looks great heeled over. Standard reply = “Beauty of form in motion”.

If I had asked could it bring about world peace I suspect the reply may have been, “if every one had a GK24 the world would probably be out sailing instead of at war”.

As a tester I mentioned to a wooden boat owner that I had seen a large old wooden yacht in need of a total refit, I didn’t have woodworking skills and my budget was limited, he thought I was onto a winner, worst still I found myself believing him.

My friend couldn’t understand why I wished to discus bilge keels with him at the weekend, and was perplexed that I drove him to the yacht club in order for him to fully understand mud moorings rather than proceed direct to the pub for lunch.

In short what am I to do with this growing itch, is there an unbiased source of information, will I need to get new friends and is the sport populated with woman because I think I could only settle with a partner who felt the same?

To any prospective female, if we shop at Liddell for past its “sell by date” food I can afford the Nicholson sloop, and we could live in a tent.

P.S Introduction to sailing course 2 weeks tomorrow 2 days at sea, yippee.

 

[Judders]

I nearly bought a GK24 as my first boat but I am glad I didn't. Too racy for the novice in my honest opinion.

If that is your sort of budget then Westerly have some good options, but start with something bombproof and forgiving and easy to maintain.

After a process (the length of which infuriated scuttlebutters!) I settled on the foxcub because of its simplicity. I won't keep her for ever, indeed once I have sailed her for a year I hope to have a far better idea of what I want from a boat and what features I can't do without. Whether I'll then go for a GK24 in a year or two is still up for grabs.

 

[CraigB]

Yes, indeed, everyone experiences this at first. You just have to decide which grinning user group you're going to sidle up to. That's why you should never ask advice until you're fairly sure of the answer you want to hear /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Judders]

One piece of advice I am glad I followed, was to go for a small boat first up. You never quoite understand the dire warnings of costs unforseen until you actually own a boat, but the smaller the boat, the less they often are. Okay so a compass costs the same, no matter the size of boat, but my warps & moorings etc are much cheaper and the margin for error when out on the water is larger!

 

[CraigB]

Agree with Judders on that, except I would say you might skip the costs of buying the smaller boat first by getting as much experience crewing on other boats until you're certain what you want to buy. Honestly, after a couple of years you will have spent the same money again on maintenance. Believe me it is truly frightening how fast the money disappears!

 

[Athene V30]

I would suggest before choosing the boat you think about where you want to keep her and the type of sailing you want to do.

Living on the East Coast as I do with shallow water etc for my first boat I bought a 21' sloop with a huge keel so spent my first year practicing getting off the mud - all a good learning process of course! Had I thought it through properly I would have goone for bilge or lifting keel despite the slight loss in sailing performance (I don't race).

My sailing is with the kids - my wife won't come out unless the sea is glassy smooth and there is a z in the month. I now have a 27 foot sloop big enough so if the kids want to come they can and small enough thet if they don't I can sail alone.

In the end the heart usually rules the head so go for it and live with the consequences!!

 

[sailbadthesinner]

all opinions are based on bias
that is why they are opinions not facts

generally tho the posters accept that if people believe a bav jen ben twister nich is the boat for them advice comes accordingly and is worth having once gentle persuasion to change their minds has failed.

As a hint
your signature at the bottom may be better thus:

Wanted woman with Halberg Rassy
send photo of Halberg Rassy

good luck with the itch

 

[raven]

I sympathise having undergone a very similar process over the past couple of years.

Having looked at several "entry level" cruisers such as Jaguar 25, Colvic Sailor, Newbridge Vivacity, Sadler 25, Westerly Pageant and Centaur I found that there were stout bodies of men ready to sing the praises of all of them for different reasons.

The first thing to do is think CLEARLY about what you want from the boat. If you are a novice you will want a boat that is seakindly and forgiving of errors rather than a super sleek racy thing. If you have a family you would be well advised to go for something more roomy. Are you going to be a day sailor or do you plan extended cruises? Where are you going to keep the boat? Is drying out a consideration? etc etc

I had spent a lot of time thinking about all these factors and had decided on a decent Centaur, I then happened (by accident) upon a 29' steel hulled, cutter rigged boat which seemed to offer more sailing stability as well as a lot of internal room (11' beam) - I decided there and then that this was the boat I wanted.

The downside is (perhaps) more maintenance and (perhaps) greater reduction in re-sale value but I have a boat that I think will serve me well for a few years and which is very individual - it remains to be seen if I have made the right choice!

 

[Twister_Ken]

>If you are a novice you will want a boat that is seakindly and forgiving of errors rather than a super sleek racy thing. <

Look here, Sunshine, I learnt to sail in Fireball, and here you are cautioning the world's next great sailor to start in a tub. He'll get bored!

Learning curve, dear boy, learning curve. The steeper the better.

 

[pessimist]

Just buy whatever you can afford, enjoy it and expect to change it in the fairly near future.

You'll have some fun and a far better idea of what your second boat should be. Depreciation isn't an issue on most second hand boats "of a certain age".

If you listen to all the biased or unbiased opinion you'll never find a boat.

The only opinion that matters is yours......

 

[MoodySabre]

Just go for it!

Bought first boat - a Snapdragon 26 in 1999 with a friend who had sailed dinghies many moons ago. I was 53 and had never sailed. If you get as hooked as I was then you soon get to grips with it. A year ago I ended the sharing agreement and bought a Moody 31 which I sailed back to Essex from Plymouth despite only short trips previously. Friend retired from boat ownership - not a skipper just a crew type.

My only regret is that I didn't start sooner so I had more experience. So just get on with it and ignore the doom and gloomers!

 

[Lakesailor]

Lots of good advice. My bit is.

Don't buy a dear boat. Get something sound but cheap. You will undoubtedly (unless you are very lucky) discover all sorts of things that don't quite suit and you'll be changing boats in a year or two.
Armed with a more precise "wants" list.

So if you didn't pay a lot in the first place, you don't stand to lose a lot when you sell.

 

[gardenshed]

Get out there and do it. You've signed up for a 2 day course well done. Get down to a yacht club and start crewing on club races just to get some sea miles, hear the chat and get experience of doing all the maneouvers etc.
Doing this you should get the chance to sail wee twitchy boats, big stable boats and everything in between. I side with Twister in the twitchy boats teach you quickly opinion vs that old and stable = boring so you go and buy a mountian bike instead.
Do a few more structured days out (training courses etc) and perhaps even try a flotilla holiday/charter holiday, again just to build sea miles.
After that, a lot depends on your personality and your passions. Creek crawling on your own to escape from the every day world, offshore passages for that sense of achievement, racing for the competitive / adrenaline buzz ...... whatever.
Jumping straight into a boat without doing a bit more research first could be the best thing you have ever done or the worst. A GK24 is a great boat for some, a rotten boat for others. If the costs are not really hurting you then why not, but the last thing that anyone on these forums (generally well meaning folks who love sailing and boaty things but love it in their own way) would want to see is a disappointed ex-GK24 owner whose enthusiasm has been lost just because of a false start in the sport.
So make yourself available, get in the cheap sea miles on a variety of other people's boats and then spend the cash

 

[Nigeldownes]

Cheers every one. All good stuff.

I think it prudent to get a bilge keel as I am in Greenwich and want to use the yacht club facilities, I was forced to do a craft apprentice ship rather than higher education nearly twenty years ago by a father who thought it would be more worthwhile, I left the tools at twenty one. It looks like it could well pay off I miss working with my hands.

I love cruising and racing doesn’t appeal at all, the only problem is I didn’t know I would get smitten and therefore haven’t prepared funds, I hear the comments about others peoples boats but I always want to stay out longer and go out when ever possible, I own my own business in Central London and therefore could even take off week days. My budget is very small cash wise because my business is still young. I saw an elderly yacht called a trident 24, small and strong yet able to cruise. She has shed loads of equipment (like I would know).

I am not saying I would get the trident but it seems the sort of thing I should be after in the early stages.


I agree with one comment that I am only sorry I left it this late. Oh and the Halburg Rassy comment was pretty funny and accurate. Trident for sale

 

[Georgio]

I had a GK24 as my first boat and never looked back. If you want one that is easier for a novice I would suggest that you look for the masthead version, ideally with an inboard. That said it you have a choice between an old (knackerd) inboard or an outboard go for the second option as you will never get the cost of a replacement I/B engine back when you sell her. They are bom proof, look great, sail easily and corfortably and easy to fix.

What ever you get - go enjoy!!

 

[tyce]

[ QUOTE ]
>If you are a novice you will want a boat that is seakindly and forgiving of errors rather than a super sleek racy thing. <

Look here, Sunshine, I learnt to sail in Fireball, and here you are cautioning the world's next great sailor to start in a tub. He'll get bored!

Learning curve, dear boy, learning curve. The steeper the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

wise words indeed by ken who wants a tub

 

[tangomoon]

Don't buy anything under 25 feet and preferably 28. It will look like a warship when you first start but that will wear off. In fact go for the whole sh*t load and buy one of these new fast racers and give yourself a real buzz or heart failure. Seriously go for it and think big. You'll be fine!

 

[Abigail]

Key word for me the first time round was cheap - ie a boat I could prang and not feel heart broken about and could afford to fix. Then when (not if) you spend time on the mud etc, well, it's not your life's savings!

Also agree with starting small and then working up. Small boats can be racey and big boats can be slow, so that's not the differentiation. it's that the bows can be really be a long way away, all the kit costs a lot more (and so does the berthing), and the damage can be a lot greater.

If you're really into cruising rather than racing, then the advice about club racing may be of mixed value. I know a couple who started with that, and got absolutely terrified racing in the Channel with headbangers. It nearly put them off altogether which would have been a dreadful shame. Cruisers are often looking out for crew too - try the Cruising Association who have a system for putting skippers and crew together.

Oh - and wander around boatyards. That's the best way I know of to get a feel for the market, and maybe to find your dreamboat gently mouldering away, waiting for you, while the owner gets desperate for cash, and sells at a knockdown price. (Seriously - get a surveyor!) We found our first and second boats that way; it was great fun looking, we learnt a lot and found good boats.

HTH

 

[tangomoon]

Listen another thing, i just read the rest of your post - Women - they'll just do as they're told. Do what everybody else does - spin the old line, We're going to buy a yacht / would you like to come sailing my dear. The woman imagines lying on the deck in a gentle breeze keeping her cool while the sun shines for ever in the blue sky and gentle waves send her to sleep. It's too late when you get them out there and it's freezing and rough and you're blaming a bad summer while all her friends are turning dark brown at home with the sunshine. Get her involved - teach her how to put screws in - the joys of scraping antifouling - show interest when she says she's discovered the pro-scraper in the magazine you left open casually t that page, and how much easier it is when you connect it to a vacuum and don't have to get dirty any more and how simple it is - while the rest of the yacht club are still in Neanderthal mode with their flint scrapers. Get her up the mast - show her the fundamentals of engine maintenance above all show her the sails - she will soon be better than you and the rest of the yacht club if you leave her alone. Join in the never ending pursuit for excellence - she's also much better to look at than dolphins if you get her to go starkers when it's warm - take pictures for the long winter nights. Women are better at being below doing the navifgation than men - they don't seem to suffer sea-sickness so badly - they cook - their usually more intelligent
they can be trained exceptionally well at night classes and are very consciencious about every thing they do so the boat won't look like the local midden all the time and it won't smell either. Thoroughly recommend them. In fact you won't be able to wait to get a bigger boat so you can get two or three - now that would be shangrila!

PS I'm deadly serious get a fast boat -Wow!

 

[jonic]

You won't know what boat you want untill your 4th /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

But it looks like you have a nice case of seafever coming on there so fair winds and enjoy.

Mine didn't have a Hallberg but did stump up for a Moody and said come on let's sail off round the world /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

There is a God.