IN in EU or OUT from EU

[dom]

I disagree. I suspect that plans are already laid for this, and by dinner time on Friday there will be an announcement of an "emergency meeting" of EU heads of state to discuss "what they need to do to keep us in". The markets will know what that means (as will the public), and all will be calm.

The EU will unambiguously denounce such notions, yet in reality you are almost certainly right!

My concern is increasingly the power crazed demagogues currently in the fray and the unsavoury elements they are increasingly pandering to. That sends an unpleasant message to the world and it is one which would indeed cause UK businesses and foreign investors alike to wait and see and wait, for what may turn out to be quite a long time.

And in that intertemporal space a truly nasty recession could lurk. Half the EU is now imploring Britain to stop this pathetic "they stole my smarties nonsense" big up, man up and aggressively counter France's big-government/big-EU fantasy. Perhaps they are right?

 

[Niander]

we all have a whinge but Britain is not such a bad place (if it was there wouldn't be all the imigration)

They come here because they get paid peanuts back home...they make much more here [we even send child benefit to their family's in Europe LOL ....and they stole my job...certainly i'm out!

 

[Daydream believer]

They come here because they get paid peanuts back home...they make much more here [we even send child benefit to their family's in Europe LOL ....and they stole my job...certainly i'm out!

Then is the answer to have the same welfare & same minimum wage across the whole of eu & only allow countries into the eu that can service that level of support to its citizens

 

[Bobc]

Then is the answer to have the same welfare & same minimum wage across the whole of eu & only allow countries into the eu that can service that level of support to its citizens

No, that's exactly the kind of thinking that's got the EU into this mess. Different countries have different standards of living, different cost-of-living, different weather, different cultures, and different land masses. We all need to set our taxes and welfare to compliment this. This is why the Greeks, Italians, Cypriots, Portugese, etc. all have massive financial problems, because they tried to do that with the currency.

 

[halcyon]

No, that's exactly the kind of thinking that's got the EU into this mess. Different countries have different standards of living, different cost-of-living, different weather, different cultures, and different land masses. We all need to set our taxes and welfare to compliment this. This is why the Greeks, Italians, Cypriots, Portugese, etc. all have massive financial problems, because they tried to do that with the currency.

Came across a report on the UK motor industry by a group of Cambridge proff's, gives a wage rate for various Countries, around 2009, but gives a guide, in US $ / hour

Germany $29.91
US $21.97
UK $20.37
Japan $20.09
Spain $14.96
Korea $10.28
Czech Rep $4.71
Brazil $2.67
Mexico $2.48
China $1.30

Brian

 

[LONG_KEELER]

No, that's exactly the kind of thinking that's got the EU into this mess. Different countries have different standards of living, different cost-of-living, different weather, different cultures, and different land masses. We all need to set our taxes and welfare to compliment this. This is why the Greeks, Italians, Cypriots, Portugese, etc. all have massive financial problems, because they tried to do that with the currency.

I know we are all different in the way we perceive the world and must respect all our views - particularly our choices at the ballot box.

From my own personal perspective, what you have just written sums up why I will be voting out. You feel that there is a deliberate reason why this situation has been created. In short, pit each
against one another to drive labour costs down, and create fear and maximize control .

They seem to have forgotten that the extra numbers are causing friction on local services, housing and particularly the NHS . Even if the vote is to stay in, this will be an ever present problem.

In this respect, the east coast is being hit particularly hard and it will be interesting to see the figures when they are broken down.

 

[Niander]

The way i see it...People are scared of change so if its a remain vote we'll just all plod along with the situation slowly getting worse...the government and all their rich palls will have scared the masses into a status quo....This isn't a fair referendum then is it.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

The way i see it...People are scared of change so if its a remain vote we'll just all plod along with the situation slowly getting worse...the government and all their rich palls will have scared the masses into a status quo....This isn't a fair referendum then is it.

True, people are scared of change; there are huge opportunities for people to make a change and find a job within the EU; over 2 million Brits have done it. The days where people could expect to find jobs within few miles of their house are gone; demand and supply in a competitive environment prevails and it is becoming prominent.

 

[Niander]

Trouble is minimum wage in some EU countries is only £2 ...NO wonder they come here then!
How much do they get here then?...£7 per hour?....i was getting £11
So they are cheap labor [and im talking about skilled welders here] .They also work longer hours and i suspect all for a flat rate..AS they are employed by an Foreign Agency...So the local employer is in a win win situation...no wonder many of the bosses want to remain!
Do you not think there should be a major overhaul of the way things are being run?

 

[MJWF]

I think you are confusibg what is good for you vs what is good for Britain. A free labour market has helped uk plc to grow and on average dusposable incomes are rising again. The problem is that this hasnt been fairly shared but that is the fault of National taxation favouring the wealthy/home owning classed not Europe.

 

[Capt Popeye]

True, people are scared of change; there are huge opportunities for people to make a change and find a job within the EU; over 2 million Brits have done it. The days where people could expect to find jobs within few miles of their house are gone; demand and supply in a competitive environment prevails and it is becoming prominent.

Humm , what you are stating Capt is surely a form of Social Engineering then ?

 

[Daydream believer]

No, that's exactly the kind of thinking that's got the EU into this mess. Different countries have different standards of living, different cost-of-living, different weather, different cultures, and different land masses. We all need to set our taxes and welfare to compliment this. This is why the Greeks, Italians, Cypriots, Portugese, etc. all have massive financial problems, because they tried to do that with the currency.

You missed the bit that said countries that can service that level of support. Clearly many cannot

 

[Daydream believer]

I think you are confusibg what is good for you vs what is good for Britain. A free labour market has helped uk plc to grow and on average dusposable incomes are rising again. The problem is that this hasnt been fairly shared but that is the fault of National taxation favouring the wealthy/home owning classed not Europe.

It is nothing to do with taxes
I also dispute that the "unregulated"free labour market has been good for "team gb."
For business perhaps. But what about the strain on housing, welfare, education, nhs etc etc
It is not just about business it is about the well being of the people. Yes we need income but this has to be balanced against quality of life. I am not so sure that we all have the same feeling of well being that we might have had or could have

 

[Bobc]

Here's an interesting interview. De ja vu all over again perhaps?

 

[Kelpie]

what about the strain on housing, welfare, education, nhs etc etc

Importing a workforce who we did not have to see through their early unproductive years (and who may well bugger off again at the end of their productive years) places far, far less of a burden on the system than if these people were home-grown. But we need a government that can be trusted to plough the increased revenues back into where it is needed.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Trouble is minimum wage in some EU countries is only £2 ...NO wonder they come here then!
How much do they get here then?...£7 per hour?....i was getting £11
So they are cheap labor [and im talking about skilled welders here] .They also work longer hours and i suspect all for a flat rate..AS they are employed by an Foreign Agency...So the local employer is in a win win situation...no wonder many of the bosses want to remain!
Do you not think there should be a major overhaul of the way things are being run?

Yes, you are right, there should be re-think to correct a number of anomalies which has affected people like you and I; the ex eastern block countries have caused havoc in every way, and the EU human rights act has protected people and illegal immigrants many of which do not deserve protection and they have abused the system; but I feel that we need to fight from within rather being outside.

 

[Bobc]

Yes, you are right, there should be re-think to correct a number of anomalies which has affected people like you and I; the ex eastern block countries have caused havoc in every way, and the EU human rights act has protected people and illegal immigrants many of which do not deserve protection and they have abused the system; but I feel that we need to fight from within rather being outside.

and the best way to fight from within, is to start with having a big stick with OUT written on it.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Re: Carrot & stick - but where's the carrot?

On what grounds would any modern EU member state declare war on another? Do you see any European country currently building up its armed forces with a view to territorial aggrandizement? Are Germany and France building warships, military aircraft and missiles with which to attack their European neighbours? Are they increasing the size of their armies with that end in view? Have they budgeted for the colossal expenditure that would be necessary?

Have you ever read anything about the origins of European wars during the last, say, two centuries? What parallels do you draw between circumstances then and those existing today?

Sorry for throwing all these questions at you but one final one, if you don't mind.

Are you really serious, or just being silly?

Humm, ah no not being silly just a tad over cautious about our EU leaders when they talk about having an EU army and forces from the EU member states. Did not the (our) EU engage with Russia over their actions with a sat-alight state, then impose economic sanctions over trade with Russia ?

As I see it, if the (our) EU leaders continue to enlarge the catchment area from which members can join the EU, going possibly outside that that we just might consider to really be Europe, we are running into problems of conflicting Religions, Faith, conflicts, following, lifestyles, expectations etc etc which well might turn into local hostilities within our EU.

No I do not foresee hostilities along the lines of the WW1 or WW2 developing anytime soon, but hostilities between members and those outside the EU fold could quite well be on the cards.

Indeed I viewed a prog where the American Lieutenant General Europe, yes there is one, who is in charge of monitoring conflicts in Europe, (from the American interest) especially the Baltic States with Russia and the Eastern European Flank with terrorists like ISIS, who openly stated that he was actively organizing defensive strategies for such hostile actions taking place, as his information was that the scenario was quite likely to happen.

Although as most of the European Countries are now in the EU or trading within the EU, there does seem to be quite large discrepancies in how well each of the countries is doing out of it, some are bigger and better than others, a situation which I would suggest is not to distant to some of the situation before the WW. If one looks at Greece, I would suggest that Merkel for The German State was not acting in their, Greece best interests with regard to the 'bail outs' etc, plus the talk of Germany reneging on repaying repatriation (or what ever) to Greece after the WW. Its all building up into a 'wrangle' between states, that just might one day come to blows with changes to Countries Governments.

So all in all, I would much prefer that our (UK) forces are never under an EU command or influence, and that the EU never has forces under its command, ever.

So if the UK is outside of the EU state, then I would suggest that the chances of an EU military force is very much reduced.

 

[NickRobinson]

Re: Carrot & stick - but where's the carrot?

I know we filter information to match our beliefs but this is interesting. Despite Mr. Gove telling us not to listen to experts.
(BTW, If we Brexit and Scotland leaves, does it become.... Exit?)
Make a coffee, its 24 minutes,

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[Colvic Watson]

Re: Carrot & stick - but where's the carrot?

Project fear or project freedom? It's an easier choice than I thought it would be.