IN in EU or OUT from EU

[dom]

IMHO by far the smartest thing Britain can do is stay-in in order to benefit from all of the trade and finance opportunities membership affords. They could then emulate the French in moulding and where necessary undermining/ignoring rules that are not conducive to the UK's national interest. Moreover, the UK's representatives in the EU (like the Kinnocks for example) should be hauled back and sacked if they go too native.

Seems far more pragmatic to me and I'm sure the Dutch Government could be persuaded to run a few boot-camps to explain the finer points of how this kind of dodging is achieved on the ground

 

[halcyon]

IMHO by far the smartest thing Britain can do is stay-in in order to benefit from all of the trade and finance opportunities membership affords. They could then emulate the French in moulding and where necessary undermining/ignoring rules that are not conducive to the UK's national interest. Moreover, the UK's representatives in the EU (like the Kinnocks for example) should be hauled back and sacked if they go too native.

Seems far more pragmatic to me and I'm sure the Dutch Government could be persuaded to run a few boot-camps to explain the finer points of how this kind of dodging is achieved on the ground

But that's what we said in the 70's, but watched firm after firm go under because we played by the rules, our rules not theirs.

Perhaps we should vote in, then vote UKIP at the next election, we may then have a group to fight our corner, cause if don't we will get trampled on big time.

Brian

 

[dom]

But that's what we said in the 70's, but watched firm after firm go under because we played by the rules, our rules not theirs.

Perhaps we should vote in, then vote UKIP at the next election, we may then have a group to fight our corner, cause if don't we will get trampled on big time.

Brian

That's an interesting point -- though from the non-saily side of my existence I must say that the UK Government and especially DC are actually pretty good at getting the job done when it comes to fighting our corner. Boris on the other hand is great fun, but as for effectiveness I'm not so sure.

 

[fergie_mac66]

IMHO by far the smartest thing Britain can do is stay-in in order to benefit from all of the trade and finance opportunities membership affords. They could then emulate the French in moulding and where necessary undermining/ignoring rules that are not conducive to the UK's national interest. Moreover, the UK's representatives in the EU (like the Kinnocks for example) should be hauled back and sacked if they go too native.

Seems far more pragmatic to me and I'm sure the Dutch Government could be persuaded to run a few boot-camps to explain the finer points of how this kind of dodging is achieved on the ground

Not allowed to be sacked, nor are they allowed to act on UK s behalf! Didn't you know, thats part of what Brexit is about the EU is undemocratic. The commission were not voted in

 

[dom]

Not allowed to be sacked, nor are they allowed to act on UK s behalf! Didn't you know, thats part of what Brexit is about the EU is undemocratic. The commission were not voted in to a job for life

Yes you're right and clearly the EC (European Commission) needs to be brought to heal, absolutely no doubt about that. Moreover, I am starting to suspect that the Brexit mob doesn't focus on these perfect;y valid issues is simply because they would be fairly easy to remedy.

Notwithstanding this, can you imagine Germany tolerating representatives like the Kinnocks who say for example openly undermined the German auto and heavy industrial concerns? Perhaps they are a bit more brutal, perhaps they don't just give these jobs to failed politicians, but at least some of the current status-quo does seem to be self inflicted.

 

[MJWF]

Not allowed to be sacked, nor are they allowed to act on UK s behalf! Didn't you know, thats part of what Brexit is about the EU is undemocratic. The commission were not voted in to a job for life

Being a commissioner is not for life - they serve for 4 years. Kinnock hasnt been a commissioner for over 10 years... Also while not directly elected they are appointed by our elected government. I agree with direct elections for commissioners - it was Thatcher and subsequent more eurosceptic UK politicians that blocked this to avoid ceding sovereignty to Europe. Brexit camp cant have its cake and eat it on this one.

Finally comissioners cant be sacked individually but the whole lot can be fired by a vote of the European parliament - not ideal i agree but not the same as not being able to remove them.

 

[macd]

Yes you're right and clearly the EC (European Commission) needs to be brought to heal...

Freudian slip?

 

[dom]

Freudian slip?

Oops!

 

[Poignard]

"The European Parliament has the right to approve and dismiss the European Commission. Since 1994, commissioners-designate have been required to appear before an EP hearing. Under the Lisbon Treaty, EU heads of state propose a candidate for Commission President, taking into account the results of European elections. The candidate is elected by the EP.The EP can censure the Commission and ultimately dismiss it. So far, none of the eight motions of censure brought before Parliament has been adopted. In 1999, the Santer Commission stepped down before Parliament forced its resignation.
The EP ensures democratic control over the Commission, which regularly submits reports to Parliament including an annual report on EU activities and on the implementation of the budget. Once a year, the Commission President gives a State of the Union address to plenary. Parliament regularly invites the Commission to initiate new policies and the Commission is required to reply to oral and written questions from MEPs.
Role
The European Commission is the guardian of the treaties and the EU's executive arm.

• Treaty on European Union, Articles 14 and 17"
  
  http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/20150201PVL00006/Supervisory-powers

 

[Daydream believer]

The European Commission is the guardian of the treaties and the EU's executive arm.[/FONT]

So when the auditors say to the commissioners that they cannot sign off the EU annual accounts the commissioners guard our rights, check for irregularities etc & ensure everything is Ok do they? Or is that down to another bunch of fraudsters?

 

[RAI]

So when the auditors say to the commissioners that they cannot sign off the EU annual accounts the commissioners guard our rights, check for irregularities etc & ensure everything is Ok do they? Or is that down to another bunch of fraudsters?

You need to read this.
http://ec.europa.eu/budget/explained/myths/myths_en.cfm

 

[maxi77]

That was my worry, having spent a lot of time in the 60/70's when the firm I worked for was selling trailer under gear against French and German manufactures. Without robust negotiators/HMG fighting the UK corner 24/7 I see us slowly sinking, at the end of the day he who grabs the the bigger share of the EU pot wins.

Brian

At the same time I was selling ships heavy machinery and lost several orders due to non tariff barriers in EEC countries pre single market. The single market is as near a level playing ground as we can get and needs centrally derived rules to work.

 

[Bobc]

If that is the case, then your best bet is to get back self-control and bloody-well fight for it rather than sitting back and expecting other people in Brussels to look after our interestes (which they absolutely will not do).

Get some bloody backbone man.

 

[Daydream believer]

You need to read this.
http://ec.europa.eu/budget/explained/myths/myths_en.cfm

As the saying goes - there are lies, damned lies & Satistics!!

The claim the accounts were Ok but accept a 5% error - that amounts to 7.2Billion euro
They say that the contribution made by nations is small. We contributed £ 8.5 billion - note that is GDP not euros. Nor does it include bailout funds to cover costs to greece, Ireland, Spain etc which I believe ( may be well out her so bear with me) was £ 4.5 billion

Of course one can argue both ways but I am inclined to believe neither side & would prefer to be out of EU so that we only have our side to complain about. At least then I can stick a cross against someone Else's name if I wish

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

As the saying goes - there are lies, damned lies & Satistics!!

The claim the accounts were Ok but accept a 5% error - that amounts to 7.2Billion euro
They say that the contribution made by nations is small. We contributed £ 8.5 billion - note that is GDP not euros. Nor does it include bailout funds to cover costs to greece, Ireland, Spain etc which I believe ( may be well out her so bear with me) was £ 4.5 billion

Of course one can argue both ways but I am inclined to believe neither side & would prefer to be out of EU so that we only have our side to complain about. At least then I can stick a cross against someone Else's name if I wish

Let's remind all that when the annual growth in early 2000 in UK and Germany was averaging 2%, Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Greece were averaging over 8% annual growth, contributing the majority of EU income. Also, these are the countries that thousands UK workers rely for work, even now. Whatever goes around, comes around.

 

[mainsail1]

Do believe the 8% annual growth? I can tell you in Greece they don't.

 

[Daydream believer]

Let's remind all that when the annual growth in early 2000 in UK and Germany was averaging 2%, Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Greece were averaging over 8% annual growth, contributing the majority of EU income. Also, these are the countries that thousands UK workers rely for work, even now. Whatever goes around, comes around.

Can you remind me again what the annual growth was based on ?

Ah yes!!! a couple of small loans to tide them over

 

[fergie_mac66]

Oh I just noticed Germany has been having large protests for Barak Obama's Visit. Objecting to TTIP. Uk is not the only country, angry about the undemocratic and unelected uncontrollable EU

 

[fergie_mac66]

Being a commissioner is not for life - they serve for 4 years. Kinnock hasnt been a commissioner for over 10 years... Also while not directly elected they are appointed by our elected government. I agree with direct elections for commissioners - it was Thatcher and subsequent more eurosceptic UK politicians that blocked this to avoid ceding sovereignty to Europe. Brexit camp cant have its cake and eat it on this one.

Finally comissioners cant be sacked individually but the whole lot can be fired by a vote of the European parliament - not ideal i agree but not the same as not being able to remove them.

Edited that stand corrected knew about that the whole lot could be sacked but the chance on 28 member agreeing to do that after theuluxemburg issue when ever it was is zilch.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

All depends on what you mean by a trade deal, if you mean buying for example a replacement to trident or any other commodity that will be between the 2 governments or in other cases the buyer and seller, if you mean the framework for international trade covering the likes of tariffs, acceptance of certification and type approvals etc then that is at present between the US and the EU, and there is a big negotiation going on at the moment hence the suggestion that if a non EU UK wanted to arrange such a deal with the US then it is very much a case of joining the queue.

I was intrigued to read about this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36120560 (I actually read about it first in the German press and then went and found the BBC coverage) - seems to have gotten little mention in the UK. I'm not sure it has any relevance to in or out but I was very surprised by it. The TTIP does seem a rather strange deal and there is some concern in the media about it http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html even if the comments about secrecy are somewhat dubious. It's not normal to show one's hand in negotiations so I wouldn't expect anything except the overall aim of the negotiations to be public.

Having read the Independent's column (which I trust about as far as I could throw a politician) it would go some way to explaining Obama's vehement support though, as well as that of the large US corporations.