In assigned place on day of Brexit

[Tranona]

If it is a EU VAT paid boat now it should keep the same status regardless of home port, location at Brexit or flag.
If the same boat changes ownership in the UK after brexit I don't think it will keep the EU VAT paid status since it has changed hands outside the EU VAT area.

This is all guesswork as there have been no indications of what the agreement will be, so you can make up all sorts of scenarios, but there are no precedents for Brexit. What you suggest is just one possibility among many.

 

[maby]

This is all guesswork as there have been no indications of what the agreement will be, so you can make up all sorts of scenarios, but there are no precedents for Brexit. What you suggest is just one possibility among many.

Exactly - there are plenty here that want a Brexit that is in name only with us continuing to obey virtually all the existing rules and remain in the existing common tax arrangements.

 

[GrahamM376]

................ there is no chance of any individual state treating boats any differently from what is agreed.

Time you removed your blinkers. States already have their own individual rules. Spend more than 6 months in Spain and they force residence and declare the boat so what will happen if they decide it's no longer VAT paid? Try importing an EU registered car into Portugal, they wanted €3,000+ tax for a mate to put his 20 year old gas guzzler car on Portuguese plates. Cars come under "transport", IIRC so do boats.

I agree it's all guesswork but time is ticking and those who intend to bring boats south should consider whether to bring plans forward and do it before Brexit, just in case. Bringing boats back to UK shouldn't be a problem as Border Agency have no idea whether it's been out for a weekend or years, as long as paperwork says what you want it to.

 

[Tranona]

Time you removed your blinkers. States already have their own individual rules. Spend more than 6 months in Spain and they force residence and declare the boat so what will happen if they decide it's no longer VAT paid? Try importing an EU registered car into Portugal, they wanted €3,000+ tax for a mate to put his 20 year old gas guzzler car on Portuguese plates. Cars come under "transport", IIRC so do boats.

I agree it's all guesswork but time is ticking and those who intend to bring boats south should consider whether to bring plans forward and do it before Brexit, just in case. Bringing boats back to UK shouldn't be a problem as Border Agency have no idea whether it's been out for a weekend or years, as long as paperwork says what you want it to.

The Spanish rules are to do with residence of the individual and all his assets. Nothing to do with VAT - in fact Spain was taken to the courts for trying to apply additional VAT. Even though they have matriculation and "environmental" tax on assets (not just boats) they wrote the rules so that the impact on genuine new residents is small.
So, no blinkers on - one needs to look closely at the rules and VAT rules are (almost) universal across the EU, and where they are different it is because of the state's policy on something else such as leasing which is not covered by an EU directive.

There is no need for anybody to take drastic action now, partly because of the unknowns and partly because it will be at least 3 years before anything changes, if at all. It is highly unlikely that boats UK VAT paid will be treated any differently just because they are in the EU at the date any changes are made, nor will they suddenly be subject to extra VAT before being allowed to stay.

We can only hope that our negotiators are good at tying the EU down in the formal treaty so that individual states do not have any room for doing their own thing.

 

[GrahamM376]

We can only hope that our negotiators are good at tying the EU down in the formal treaty so that individual states do not have any room for doing their own thing.

The eternal optimist Our negotiators only seem excellent at backing down

 

[Tranona]

The eternal optimist Our negotiators only seem excellent at backing down

The point is that the examples are perfectly legal as they are not covered by an EU directive. There is a lot of deviations in various states in the EU simply because EU derived law and policies do not cover everything, but where they do they tend to be very prescriptive. That is the nature of the EU and why it is so difficult for states particularly the UK to deal with them, and why Brexit will take so long. The two main issues are the nature of the deal and how far it deviates from what the EU wants and then wording the treaty in such a way that the resulting rules are clear. The little tiff over the Irish border is a good example. The "deal" is a fudge, and as many say is largely meaningless until the final agreement is written and signed. The big danger is signing up to a fudge as the chances of negotiating any subsequent change are pretty small.

That is the advantage of a no deal. It will force the EU to negotiate on our terms, not theirs. If only......

 

[tcm]

Thank you for the very comprehensive explanation. I guess I can proceed with my plans to sail to the Caribbean in 2018 (I hope, unless something else gets in the way again). I suppose I can always duck into Martinique should it be necessary. I think that island is part of France. If all is well my bucket list to die of sex under a palm tree in Tahiti will be next stop.

The palm tree you might seek is a little closer, in the San Blas islands close to Panama. Otherwise, continue thru Panama and discover that Tahiti is faulty first world, ish. Macdonalds, Supermarkets, flash hotels, marinas. Head 90nm further west to the Society Islands - Bora Bora, Huahine, Raiatae and Huahine. I think you might be able to "die of sex" (whatever the hell that means) on one of those islands, or a nearby motu...

 

[pandos]

You are quite right Mac, I should just go ahead and enjoy the voyage. I will not be the only one out there with a VAT threat. In fact I have just remembered that if a yacht is out of the EU for two years it is due for VAT on return with or without Brexit. Will anyone be daft enough to tell the revenue when they get back. Maybe a few fibs on the blog may be worth it.

Thanks again.

I think it is 4 years with an extension to 5 years where the (deemed) importer is the original (deemed) exporter?

 

[Sybarite]

I suspect that HMRC are going to have a lot more to think about following Brexit than claiming back VAT on a few thousand boats that are moored abroad.

Nevertheless it's worthwhile looking at the situation and, if necessary making the necessary representations in advance rather than being faced with a fait accompli later.

 

[macd]

I think it is 4 years with an extension to 5 years where the (deemed) importer is the original (deemed) exporter?

I sometimes wonder where these strange numbers come from.
HMRC:
A boat previously VAT paid and exported from the EU may also qualify for relief on return if:
imported normally within 3 years of its export from the EU
imported by the person who exported it from the EU
it has undergone no more than running repairs outside the EU that did not increase its value

This is known as Returned Goods Relief (RGR). The three year limit is applicable to pretty well all things, but may be extended under certain circumstances. As well as VAT, it applies to duty.

 

[Tranona]

Nevertheless it's worthwhile looking at the situation and, if necessary making the necessary representations in advance rather than being faced with a fait accompli later.

See post#26.

Pretty sure our representatives, particularly RYA and BMF are well aware of the issues and are working with the powers that be in government to ensure that all these issues are covered in the agreement.

The big challenge, once they get past the principles is the hard work of making sure the rules agreed are clear and unambiguous.

This has always been a challenge with the EU where the principal negotiators love a fudge (as we have seen recently) and leave it to the minions to fill in the detail later. This often means that the final agreement does not necessarily reflect the fudge leading to more late night cliff hangers.

 

[pandos]

I sometimes wonder where these strange numbers come from.
.

my figures came from my thoughts/memories having paid VAT on import of yacht previously exported about 10 years ago... I was not too far off on the mark....