Importing a boat from Europe, Trading Standards Response

[st599]

In the section for manufacturers, it explicitly states how to apply for type approval for vessels that are similar enough to not have different safety profiles. That option isn't in the private importers sections - so it doesn't seem to exist for private imports.

 

[benjenbav]

In the section for manufacturers, it explicitly states how to apply for type approval for vessels that are similar enough to not have different safety profiles. That option isn't in the private importers sections - so it doesn't seem to exist for private imports.

Deleted -

 

[nevis768]

A million posts back I made the mild observation that the private importers bit is prefaced by ‘where the manufacturer hasn’t already dealt with certification’.

(That’s not the exact wording, but similar).

That was the nub of it from Trading Standards.....

• If a private importer imports a product that has not previously been placed on the GB market, where the manufacturer has not carried out the relevant conformity assessment procedure, the private importer will have to carry out a post construction assessment to demonstrate conformity with the Regulations, as set out in Schedule 5.

I asked about the position with post and pre CE marked boats, and it is the same, provided it was manufactured to the requirements existing then, it now complies and their is no requirement for any UK certification. I'm interested in 2 boats, one is CE marked and one is a 70's model. Hence I checked the position, as did the other poster Doug 478, so that's 2 of us who have phoned the relevant authority now. The TS chap went a bit further regarding pre- CE marked boats, saying in that era TS had no role in this, he remembered when it came in, and that position has not changed.

Recreational Craft Regulations 2017: Great Britain

Trading standards are very helpful, so if you are genuinely inrterested I recommend ringing them, it's a pretty short conversation due to the above para 8 in the guidance that exempts any boats which have gone through CE marking, and whatever was there before. Here is the link which I was emailed, by the Trading standards Team leader, but I have previously posted it numerous times.

 

[Beneteau381]

That was the nub of it from Trading Standards.....

• If a private importer imports a product that has not previously been placed on the GB market, where the manufacturer has not carried out the relevant conformity assessment procedure, the private importer will have to carry out a post construction assessment to demonstrate conformity with the Regulations, as set out in Schedule 5.

I asked about the position with post and pre CE marked boats, and it is the same, provided it was manufactured to the requirements existing then, it now complies and their is no requirement for any UK certification. I'm interested in 2 boats, one is CE marked and one is a 70's model. Hence I checked the position, as did the other poster Doug 478, so that's 2 of us who have phoned the relevant authority now. The TS chap went a bit further regarding pre- CE marked boats, saying in that era TS had no role in this, he remembered when it came in, and that position has not changed.

Recreational Craft Regulations 2017: Great Britain

Trading standards are very helpful, so if you are genuinely inrterested I recommend ringing them, it's a pretty short conversation due to the above para 8 in the guidance that exempts any boats which have gone through CE marking, and whatever was there before. Here is the link which I was emailed, by the Trading standards Team leader, but I have previously posted it numerous times.

Well done! I read some of the drivel on here sometimes and despair!

 

[st599]

Well done! I read some of the drivel on here sometimes and despair!

Yes, good to see Trading Standards agreeing with the majority of posters on this thread, that if the manufacturer hasn't undertaken the relevant process, which is listed in the statute as RCD 2103, that the importer will have to undertake a PCA. Agrees with most of the posts on this thread.

 

[Beneteau381]

Yes, good to see Trading Standards agreeing with the majority of posters on this thread, that if the manufacturer hasn't undertaken the relevant process, which is listed in the statute as RCD 2103, that the importer will have to undertake a PCA. Agrees with most of the posts on this thread.

Uh?

 

[Tranona]

Uh?

Exactly what he says. Post#23 states the legal position is what I and many others say - how could it be otherwise as the language is pretty clear? Moreover it has been the same for over 30 years,

The poster of 23 seems to think that the law means something different from what it actually says hence his continual posting off what you rightly term "drivel".

 

[nevis768]

Exactly what he says. Post#23 states the legal position is what I and many others say - how could it be otherwise as the language is pretty clear? Moreover it has been the same for over 30 years,

The poster of 23 seems to think that the law means something different from what it actually says hence his continual posting off what you rightly term "drivel".

I and Trading Standards say the opposite of what you say. No UKCA marking is required for a boat which has CE marking or whatever went on before. CE marking or the process before, is now accepted, full stop.

• If a private importer imports a product that has not previously been placed on the GB market, where the manufacturer has not carried out the relevant conformity assessment procedure, the private importer will have to carry out a post construction assessment to demonstrate conformity with the Regulations, as set out in Schedule 5.
• So to simplify it, that means if you buy a Bavaria from France ,and take it to the UK for your own use, that manufacturer has sold that in Britain before, and carried out the relative conformity procedure in France, then NO UK certification is required. That is what Trading Standards have confirmed, CE marking is now accepted. Know you don't like it, but I think you should stop posting misleading drivel on the internet. They also confirmed it to Doug478 when he enquired about the same thing.
• Here's the link, which I have posted before, S 8 applies.
• Recreational Craft Regulations 2017: Great Britain

 

[st599]

I and Trading Standards say the opposite of what you say. No UKCA marking is required for a boat which has CE marking or whatever went on before. CE marking is now accepted, full stop.

• If a private importer imports a product that has not previously been placed on the GB market, where the manufacturer has not carried out the relevant conformity assessment procedure, the private importer will have to carry out a post construction assessment to demonstrate conformity with the Regulations, as set out in Schedule 5.
• So to simplify it, that means if you buy a Bavaria from France, that manufacturer has sold that in Britain before, and carried out the relative conformity procedure in France, then NO UK certification is required. That is what Trading Standards have confirmed. Know you don't like it, but I think you should stop posting misleading drivel on the internet.
• Here's the link, which have posted before, S 8 applies.
• Recreational Craft Regulations 2017: Great Britain

The relevant conformity assessment is RCD 2013 according to the actual legislation - you're posting the informative guidance which needs to be read in conjunction with the normative legislation.

The second bullet point is your interpretation, but doesn't match what you said trading standards wrote in a letter.

 

[Tranona]

I and Trading Standards say the opposite of what you say. No UKCA marking is required for a boat which has CE marking (or whatever went on before. CE marking is now accepted, full stop).

The last phrase in brackets is NOT what the law says (nor what your TS contact says) - those are your own words and are simply wrong

The law explicitly says boats must meet the 2013 standard as in the 2017 legislation. It is now accepted there is no need for boats that meet this standard to have a UKCA as a CE mark to the relevant standard is acceptable.

It is absolutely pointless you continuing to add things to the legislation just because it suits your argument. Nobody believes you.

 

[Tranona]

Your perseverance is to be commended.

And it seems you got the desired outcome.

Well done & enjoy the new boat.

PS: no doubt the usual suspects will be on to you soon with tales of doom regarding EU imports and VAT.

Well, he has not got the desired outcome as the advice given by his TS contact tells him that he can only import a boat that meets the latest standards, and if that boat has a documented CE mark to that standard there is no need to re-certify it and apply a UKCA mark.

He (and his friend) want to import pre 1998 boats and that is clearly not allowed despite what he imagines!

 

[nevis768]

Well, he has not got the desired outcome as the advice given by his TS contact tells him that he can only import a boat that meets the latest standards, and if that boat has a documented CE mark to that standard there is no need to re-certify it and apply a UKCA mark.

He (and his friend) want to import pre 1998 boats and that is clearly not allowed despite what he imagines!

Yes I do, I spoke with Trading standards, they have explained this to me, and another forumite Doug 478 at length, not that it is hard to understand, and you are incorrect. So, now 2 users have had the same response from Trading Standards, and a well respected broker has also said the same thing. I'm not sure why you continue to post nonsense.

 

[Tranona]

Yes I do, I spoke with Trading standards, they have explained this to me, and another forumite Doug 478 at length, not that it is hard to understand, and you are incorrect. So, now 2 users have had the same response from Trading Standards, and a well respected broker has also said the same thing. I'm not sure why you continue to post nonsense.

What exactly have they "explained" to you? You have only said they referred you to the regulations which do not say what you claim.

Once again what precisely was the question you asked and their precise answer. Then support with written confirmation.

Otherwise we only have your word which based on all the other claims you have made is not very reliable.

 

[Bilgediver]

Here’s the relevant part of the email response.


CE marking will continue indefinitely for recreational craft as well as most other product safety regulations. So long as you ensure that the boat is appropriately marked and has all the correct paperwork you should have no problems when it comes to re-sale

The important expectation is that the boat is appropriately marked,
The marine CE mark must include details of the category that the boat was designed to and also refers to sea areas of operation and souls and weights on board. Important and relevant stability information.

 

[nevis768]

What exactly have they "explained" to you? You have only said they referred you to the regulations which do not say what you claim.

Once again what precisely was the question you asked and their precise answer. Then support with written confirmation.

Otherwise we only have your word which based on all the other claims you have made is not very reliable.

Have you got a problem with plain English? Read post 1 again, and see Doug's post on the same subject. I'm not replying to you again, I think if Trading Standards themselves posted on here you would still say they were wrong.

 

[Tranona]

Have you got a problem with plain English? Read post 1 again, and see Doug's post on the same subject. I'm not replying to you again, I think if Trading Standards themselves posted on here you would still say they were wrong.

I have read both and they do not say what you claim. Your post#1 just refers you to the regulations which make no mention of pre 1998 boats. Equally the post on the other thread is just an unsubstantiated statement from an unknown person with no supporting evidence.

If Trading Standards did post anything here it would almost certainly refer to the documents you have linked to. However as you claim that you have written evidence in the form of an email that leads you to believe that the legislation and regulations are incorrect or incomplete then post it here.

 

[Concerto]

Reading the whole thread, it seems to me that the regulations Tranona refers to are intended for businesses selling boats in the UK that were manufactured outside the UK. The common sense position seems to be confirmed by Trading Standards that second hand boats imported by an individual for their own use do not need any new certification provided that identical models were built to the correct standard at the time of construction within the EU before Brexit. If the boat predates CE marking, then it it does not need certification provided it met the requirements at the time of construction. If this situation is correct then buying a boat in the EU and bringing it to the UK will be fine but VAT will still have to be paid on import. By comparison a boat manufactured in say the USA and never sold in the UK, would be built to a different standard. That is why so few US boats were ever imported to the UK as they had to have some modification to comply to the UK standards at the time. That is why importing a US boat to the UK/EU has always been so difficult.

 

[st599]

Reading the whole thread, it seems to me that the regulations Tranona refers to are intended for businesses selling boats in the UK that were manufactured outside the UK.

Nope, definitely not. The legislation has an entire section on Imports by Private Individuals. See section 36: The Recreational Craft Regulations 2017

Trading Standards have said that the boat can be imported if it has been measured against the relevant standard and the legislation says the relevant standard is RCD 2013.

 

[nevis768]

Nope, definitely not. The legislation has an entire section on Imports by Private Individuals. See section 36: The Recreational Craft Regulations 2017

Trading Standards have said that the boat can be imported if it has been measured against the relevant standard and the legislation says the relevant standard is RCD 2013.

Honestly, what absolute crap.
It was me that spoke to Trading Standards specifically to find out if I needed to have an imported European boat UK certified. I queried re a CE marked boat, and a pre CE 70's boat. The answer was NO, NO NO NO NO you do not. The CE mark is now accepted indefinitely.
Boats prior to CE marking only need to comply with whatever the requirements was then. This is not my opinion, it is what Trading Standards told me in response that specific query.
Here is the relevant part of S36 36.—(1) If a manufacturer has not complied with the manufacturer’s obligations under this Part, a private importer must ensure, before putting a product into service,

So, what Trading standards say, after their lead investigator checked with the relevant gov department is that by having a CE mark they (Trading Standards) consider the relevant manufacturer HAS complied and therefore there is nothing more the Private Importer has to do.
I am the second person who has queried Trading Standards this week on this issue, both of us received the same answer.

If anybody would like to see the correspondence or have discussion about importation, please send me a PM, and ignore the crap that is being posted on these forums. Or ringTrading standards yourself, they are helpful, you have to ring your local office. ( Although if you look at the above legislation, it is pretty clear.)
I can only assume the motivation for the misinformation is to prevent buyers looking abroad because these posters often add , 'don't do it , it costs too much for certification, which is more absolute crap.

 

[Tranona]

It was me that spoke to Trading Standards specifically to find out if I needed to have an imported European boat UK certified. I queried re a CE marked boat, and a pre CE 70's boat. The answer was NO, NO NO NO NO you do not. The CE mark is now accepted indefinitely.

This is correct for boats that meet the current standard

Boats prior to CE marking only need to comply with whatever the requirements was then. This is not my opinion, it is what Trading Standards told me in response that specific query.

This is not correct

Here is the relevant part of S36 36.—(1) If a manufacturer has not complied with the manufacturer’s obligations under this Part, a private importer must ensure, before putting a product into service,

This is telling you that if you cannot provide proof that the boat complies with the current standards it is your responsibility as importer to ensure it complies

So, what Trading standards say, after their lead investigator checked with the relevant gov department is that by having a CE mark they (Trading Standards) consider the relevant manufacturer HAS complied and therefore there is nothing more the Private Importer has to do.

This is only correct if the CE mark and documentation confirms that the boat meets the current standard

I am the second person who has queried Trading Standards this week on this issue, both of us received the same answer.

I am not surprised because all they have done is direct you to the relevant legislation and regulations none of which say that boats only have to meet the standard ruling when they were built.

If anybody would like to see the correspondence or have discussion about importation, please send me a PM, and ignore the crap that is being posted on these forums. Or ringTrading standards yourself, they are helpful, you have to ring your local office. ( Although if you look at the above legislation, it is pretty clear.)

I have sent you a PM Lok forward to receiving a copy of your correspondence

I can only assume the motivation for the misinformation is to prevent buyers looking abroad because these posters often add , 'don't do it , it costs too much for certification, which is more absolute crap.

No the motivation is only the truth NOT your opinion and so far you have made a number of statements using your own words that are not true.