"Illegal" flag confiscated.

[Guest]

Yes that blue thing with daisies on it. Report in April Yachting World, no one has remarked on it !!!!! page 76.

 

[Guest]

Report Says,

An EU flag with a Union flag in one corner has been confiscated by British Consular officials in Lisbon because it is an illegal ensign, reports ths Royal Yachting Association. The RYA points out that the EU "starry circle! flag is not an official ensign, explaining sternly: "The use of the Union flag is a jealously guarded privaledge owned by the Sovereign herself and it remains illegal to use the union flag in a non-authorised way."

"The owner of the offending flag not only loses it but is liable to a considerable fine," it continues.

A commissioned officer in the Navy, Army or Diplomatic Service can confiscate illegal flags.

 

[Guest]

Pity I wasn\'t there to argue it! Great opportunity missed! nm

nm

 

[Guest]

Two points:

The bit you quote refers to using "the union flag in a non-unauthorised way", not the EU flag. So it's unclear what the facts were. Was he flying the Union flag (instead of the red ensign)? - This would clearly be a criminal offence.

Secondly, as mentioned in earlier postings, you are required to fly the red duster (or equivalent blue duester etc.) when entering or leaving a foreign port. If he flew another flag instead on entering/leaving a Portuguese port, that would be a criminal offence.

I haven't seen the RYA report, but will try and find out more.

 

[Guest]

Wot a Lot of Rot

Just on the way I interprete the report, it sounds liek the guy was flying something looking like a blue ensign, with eurostars on the blue part.

But what a load of nonsense all this. Presumably if he'd have arrived flying a pair of Desperate Dan underpants nobody, least of all HM consul would have cared a monkey's. If he'd been flying an 'undefaced' euro daisy chain, no one would have thought twice. But because his particular piece of bunting had some red, white and blue triangles in one corner, some chinless toff batting from an MBE comes over all huffy and makes a point which no one but he gives a toss about.

Wouldn't said chinless be better employed in Palma Mallorca 'arresting' lager louts wearing improperly flown Union Flags around their shoulders while exposing their buttocks to passing news crews?

 

[Guest]

Love your last line Ken, Just see the headline "Man Arrested For Improperly Showing His Ring around his A......." NM*

****

 

[Guest]

Reading you posting again I see that you say it was a combined Union glag and EU flag. If that was the case, then that would be illegal - but the illegality is not the flying of the EU flag, it's the flying of the Union flag in a form that isn't authorised, as the bit you quote indicates.

So nothing to indicate that an "undefaced" EU flag would be a problem.

I've asked the Embassy in Lisbon for further details and will let you know if I hear back.

 

[Guest]

Yes, your interpretation is correct; it is the unauthorised use of the union flag that constitutes the offence.

Wear the daisy chain at the yard if you wish, but leave our naytional flag to enjoy a little respect. We haven't got that much to spare at the moment.

 

[Guest]

Hear hear Bill. I always wonder who the flyers of odd flags would call upon if in trouble. The Royal Navy, the EEC navy or the navies of any of the other invented ensigns you see around?

 

[Guest]

In defence of HM Consular Service

1. They are not well paid, and are second class citizens in the diplomatic service.

2. They do not get the Call Me God, Kindly call Me God, and God Calls Me God, (Commander of the Order of St Michael and St George, Knight Commander, etc...) which are reserved for the "proper" diplomats whom you identify as chinless wonders.

3. They do have to spend an awful lot of time dealing with lager louts; a particularly thankless occupation.

4. I have always found them efficient and helpful.

5. The confiscation of the ensign was right and proper; I for one do not like to see someone abusing our flag.

 

[Guest]

Re: In defence of HM Consular Service

I have rather different experiences with consuls, but they are like the curate's egg. Good in parts.

 

[Guest]

Select your consul

Advice to cruising yachties based on visiting 57 countries under sail:

It is best to consult a consul from another country. If I have a problem which needs consular advice, I go to soewhere where there is no British Consul.

Without doubt the Canadians are way ahead of the field. So far ahead there is little compettiton. Next come, of all surprises, the French, who are always glad to score a point over their British colleagues.

The Americans are often good, especially if you get a sailing one. Aussies, not much. South Africans, yes.

That about sums upi our experience.

 

[Guest]

Re:And yet another thought on HM Consular Service

British Consulates are supposed to maintain a set of notices to mariners. The last six I have tried have either not had one, or have no idea where it is: anyway, no n's to m's

 

[Guest]

do you really believe that the navy (or the government ) would come to your assistance? do you also believe in fairies?

 

[Guest]

I seem to have been lucky

Agree about the Canadians. The Aussies are very good in SE Asia, which they correctly identify as their own back yard, and where their intelligence service is second to none.

 

[Guest]

Well the Royal Navy have never had to come to my assistance thank god, but while serving in it, I had to go to the asistance of probably twenty yachts. One of them was on a Christmas Day, when a frigate had to put to sea from Portland to stand by some idiot who had left the Solent despite a gale warning.

It's true there isn't much of a navy left and what there is is so short of fuel they do not do much sea-time, but they do help a lot. 37% of helicopter rescues have been done by naval helicopters.

Don't knock a good outfit. Join the Naval Reserve and find out.

 

[Guest]

But we don\'t want him. nm.

.

 

[Guest]

I'm glad we agree on that!

But your response implies that there is a legal problem with wearing the daisy chain at the stern as an ensign. There isn't.

It would however be illegal to create a composite flag incorporating the Union flag into the daisy chain, which seems to be what this chap has done. That would be illegal, not because he was flying the EU flag, but because he has defaced the Union flag in an illegal way. If he were to fly the EU flag at the stern without the Union flag bit incorporated into it, that would be fine.

 

[Guest]

I have received a response from the British consul in Portugal

As suspected, the incident concerned an illegally defaced blue ensign rather than the question of flying a "pure" EU flag as an ensign.

Incidentally, it's interesting to note that it was apparently the Portuguese authorities rather than the British who confiscated the flag!

Excerpt from the response:-

"I think the incident you are referring to occurred late last year when we were contacted by the Portuguese Maritime authorities who had confiscated from a British registered yacht, a defaced blue ensign (an EU flag with a small union flag added to the top corner nearest the hoist). The authorities did not consider this flag to be legal but wanted to know whether it was authorised in the UK."

Anyone wanting full details of the response and the question I put to them can e-mail me.

 

[Guest]

I have received a response from the British consul in Portugal

As suspected, the incident concerned an illegally defaced blue ensign rather than the question of flying a "pure" EU flag as an ensign.

Incidentally, it's interesting to note that it was apparently the Portuguese authorities rather than the British who confiscated the flag!

Excerpt from the response:-

"I think the incident you are referring to occurred late last year when we were contacted by the Portuguese Maritime authorities who had confiscated from a British registered yacht, a defaced blue ensign (an EU flag with a small union flag added to the top corner nearest the hoist). The authorities did not consider this flag to be legal but wanted to know whether it was authorised in the UK."

Anyone wanting full details of the response and the question I put to them can e-mail me.