If you had to choose a <£30k yacht from the market right now, which would it be?

[salad]

Good choice for the chosen cruising area, though I’m pretty certain that a CW 34 is GRP rather than steel (the clue being in the Colvic part of the name - they moulded the hulls for GL Watson &Co.)

You could also consider a Nauticat 33, which was also available with a ketch rig IIRC.

Thanks for this, I'm not sure why I thought they were steel. Am I confusing it with the Fisher?

Displacement for the CW34 seems to be functionally 12-13 tonnes, another reason why I thought it was steel! lol

 

[Frogmogman]

Thanks for this, I'm not sure why I thought they were steel. Am I confusing it with the Fisher?

Displacement for the CW34 seems to be functionally 12-13 tonnes, another reason why I thought it was steel! lol

Mark Cameron yachts have a nice looking example listed (he usually seems to have a good selection of boats on offer). Above your budget, but I have seen Nauticat 33s within your target price range.

The later ones which are fin and skeg sail surprisingly well.

 

[Salt'n'shaken]

Hi everyone,

We've made a decision here at home and it's been agreed with the admiral. By way of a thank you to everyone for their input, I wanted to update this thread and give it some sort of conclusion.

After much back and forth with our goals in mind, we think that the best thing for our situation is going to be a motorsailer. Specifically, something like a Colvic Watson 34 or possibly a Fisher.

As we live far away and the chosen cruising ground is Scotland, no matter how much we plan, the weather will do it's thing. The additional volume afforded by the hull design and pilothouse is worth the sacrifice in sailing performance for us. Were we to get the same usable internal volume on a racer/cruiser, I suspect we'd be looking at a 40 footer, which just isn't realistic for us, neither in terms of cost, or crew availability/handling, not yet anyway.

If we lived an hour from the boat, I'd probably go for a racer/cruiser, as we could pop along to it in fine weather whenever we liked. As that isn't the case, we need a true home from home, which I think, in the absence of a truly large sailing yacht, the motorsailer provides. Additionally, we believe the extra shelter will encourage us to go sailing more often, even in winter and to explore further afield than we may do if we had a yacht. Rain, which we expect a lot of, doesn't really come into it as much if you're sat in a pilothouse. It's large enough for the whole family to be there with the person at the helm, whilst staying warm and dry. A big plus. Might even reduce seasickness.

My vision of safety for children has played a part here too. The guardrails are higher, walking around on the boat is less cluttered with rigging and the flared bow offers additional shelter. Freeboard is much greater. I'd be more comfortable with kids/guests on the motorsailer I think, which will aid confidence. I noted that on some yachts, particularly smaller ones, the cockpit was very shallow, which I admit made me nervous, especially with a boom overhead.

I need to look into it, but the CW34 also appears to take a relatively serious tender, rather than just a small inflatable. This will help with coastal exploration. Some measuring to do, but a 3.4m rib with a 15hp seems relatively plausible, the steel hull giving davits a strong fixing point.

The major negative of course is sailing performance, with most people saying that something like the CW34 requires an F3 to get going. I can believe that, but I think it's an acceptable trade off, since our goal is to explore, rather than explicitly sail for sailings sake or racing. I'd be happy to motor a bit and get a boost from the sails. I like the fact that the CW is ketch rigged, as I can potentially give our son responsibility for the mizzen, to keep him engaged. Ultimately I'd like to do more sailing than motoring, but having options is good.

I have some measuring to do, but on the CW, there might even be the possibility of taking our push bikes and have them not be covered in spray constantly, which wasn't really possible on a smaller yacht I didn't think?

Guests are another factor. The CW34 has a true aft cabin, completely separate from the saloon. This is a boon for taking kids or guests. Shared heads admittedly, but still, it affords some privacy and/or gives the kids their own "den". We didn't feel like we would be comfortably able to accommodate guests for a week on a 32-34 ft yacht and in many of them, there was a lack of cabin doors, although I suppose these could have been fitted. A lot of the smaller yachts also didn't really have anywhere to dry kit other than the heads, maybe one or two had a locker. The CW offers some options, with the aft cabin and pilothouse space.

Another major point is that I don't really see a medium term need for a change of boat. I can see us getting at least 10 years out of a CW34 for it's £50k price tag, whereas on a sailboat, I think we'd be pining for a 40 footer long before then. I can see why theres a major change in price at 40ft, as if you want to do longer cruises with a family and guests, even a 38 may be pushing it. Obviously it depends on what people like to do and what they take with them, etc etc.

I am very grateful to everyone who took the time to respond and as I gain experience, I hope to be able to help others in turn. My DS theory gubbins just turned up today, so looking forward to cracking on with the course.

Seems a very sensible choice to me. The pilothouse is a huge boon (why I suggested the Hunter Pilot 27 previously - although I know it's too small). Even when not sheltering from the weather, the extra headroom makes a huge difference when 'down below'.

 

[salad]

Mark Cameron yachts have a nice looking example listed (he usually seems to have a good selection of boats on offer). Above your budget, but I have seen Nauticat 33s within your target price range.

The later ones which are fin and skeg sail surprisingly well.

I think the Nauticat would be a possible future upgrade path. Theres a 33 on sale at the moment, but someone has slung black paint all over it.

 

[Frogmogman]

This was the one I looked at

Boat Details - Mark Cameron Yachts - Specialist Sail and Motorboat Brokerage

 

[salad]

This was the one I looked at

Boat Details - Mark Cameron Yachts - Specialist Sail and Motorboat Brokerage

Lovely boat. Not sure about all that teak though!

 

[V1701]

CWs, Nauticats, Fishers are all plastic, I live full time on my (unrigged) CW34. Accommodation is huge for a 34', the fibreglass at the top of the gunwales is a good inch thick, they're built like an outhouse. I bought mine after owning and living on smaller sailboats, working full time I was doing little sailing so bought something more suited to living on in the UK. I do wish she had a rig (AFAIK most are ketch, some sloop & some mobo) and may indeed fit one one day. If I can help answer any questions you might have send a PM...

 

[salad]

CWs, Nauticats, Fishers are all plastic, I live full time on my (unrigged) CW34. Accommodation is huge for a 34', the fibreglass at the top of the gunwales is a good inch thick, they're built like an outhouse. I bought mine after owning and living on smaller sailboats, working full time I was doing little sailing so bought something more suited to living on in the UK. I do wish she had a rig (AFAIK most are ketch, some sloop & some mobo) and may indeed fit one one day. If I can help answer any questions you might have send a PM...

Yet they look like they should be steel!

Thats a very kind offer and I will indeed take you up on that if you don't mind. We wont be buying immediately as I think prices are going to adjust soon, but I will certainly contact you if I have any questions. Thank you so much.

 

[Concerto]

We bought, and still have, a 1997 26ft Westerly Centaur on the Hamble.

Wow, how did you manage that when production ended in 1980. I presume you meant you bought it in 1997.

 

[lustyd]

More likely meant 1979 and transposed digits?

 

[Concerto]

Always pay to read all posts once live and edit any errors immediately.

 

[Just_sayin']

Always payS to read all posts once live and edit any errors immediately.

??

 

[ashtead]

Looking to see sme pictures of a cw34 but I guess much like a Fisher where the 37 always looked good but I read they didn’t tack too well? Loads of nauticat around of course at 331 etc. please you have a model in mind but don’t close you mind to others should one pop up -get out there and kick a few CW tyres and post a few photos -amazing what boat history can be unearthed.

 

[ylop]

After much back and forth with our goals in mind, we think that the best thing for our situation is going to be a motorsailer. Specifically, something like a Colvic Watson 34 or possibly a Fisher.

OK - I can see how you reached that conclusion, as at a similar stage of decision making to you, having also come from a powerboat background (although a dinghy sailor too) we reached the same conclusion... ...our view changed throughout the hunting/buying process and here's why:

1. Once my wife actually did CC course and sailed a yacht I discovered the smile on her face when we are motoring along, raise the sails and turn the engine off. The silence starts, the ripple of water emerges and huge smile emerges almost instantly. I would never have expected it from her. She never complained about the engine noise on our powerboat. She never enjoyed dinghy sailing. She likes paddleboarding - perhaps there was a clue there that switching off ticks her box.
2. Most (but not all) motorsailors are pretty old and dated inside. I think any in your budget will be needing TLC to make it a nice place to be.
3. I don't think they are particularly spacious inside! That view may be controversial, compare to a similar length boat of the same era they are, but compared to a modern Ben/Jen/Bav which has been designed to appeal to the cruising user. What you want from space may be different to other people. If an average modern "beginner" customer wanted the space and layout of a typical motorsailer then B/J/B would have an offering for that market - of course the average B/J/B customer isn't based in largs so may be more interested in bathing platforms etc, however you talk about taking guests etc - only the biggest motorcruisers will have space for that. Some of the best "living" spaces I've seen are really 2+2. Some of the aft cabin arrangements require you to go "outside" to get from saloon to cabin (or cabin to heads!). Some of the forepeak v=berth arrangements are old school where you are basically sharing space with the anchor locker etc!
4. Outdoor/cockpit space. Everything you say about a wheelhouse is true and a very strong argument for one. BUT most have lost a lot of cockpit space as the compromise. Scotland does get nice weather sometimes. We concluded we would rather be outside for that if we are sailing or at anchor.
5. With the Ben/Jen/Bav examples once you've been on a Bav34 2 cabin or a Jen32.2 etc you can actually judge a lot virtually. A lot of the Colvic's etc are DIY/custom and so you will need to see them in person to see if they suit.
6. Seasickness - we have sufferers here. Fresh air, being outside looking at the horizon, actually steering the boat are all actually helpful to avoid it. I've not tested it, but I suspect that being inside a motorsailer wheelhouse might be worse than being on deck. If the engine is running, there's cooking smells etc - it certainly won't be better. I suspect modern times means kids more likely to play with phone/tablet in wheel house (or read a book if old school) which will make them more susceptible. I'm not convinced you are going to keep them focussed on a mizzen sail - depending where you are going once its set you might not touch it again for hours!
7. Keeping warm/comfortable - 100% a wheelhouse must be better BUT a sprayhood is actually pretty effective on average "meh" days. If your fear is the family all huddling under the sprayhood whilst you get attacked on the helm - consider making an autopilot a higher priority. In reality you just bought some fancy waterproofs - use them, and if its too bad for that do you really need/want to go exploring?
8. Safety for little people etc - which my family are I think a bit older than yours, as we actually got used to sailing yachts we realised there is often little reason to leave the cockpit on a modern yacht. There may even be some risk compensation from high bulwarks etc. Also, many are older school designs where the lines are not all led back to the cockpit, meaning you may need to walk about more to raise sails etc!
9. Windage for your marina berthing etc will be harder (and long keels typically add fun too). As a beginner, a BenJenBav or similar modern design may be more forgiving. Even if you think you can learn the tricks etc - will it mean that coming alongside becomes "your" chore rather than something the whole family learns to do with confidence?

Now your experiences and decisions will be different but I honestly don't think I appreciated half those points until I was actually sailing yachts with my family either on courses or on charter, and for the others my priorities have changed/evolved as the family have been absorbed by sailing and got more into it rather than being passengers.

There's a reason AWBs are popular - they suit a lot of people's needs. It would be easy to say your needs are different - but have a walk around Largs marina - there's a lot more AWBs than motorsailers and there's no shortage of English accents, families etc... you may be more average than you think!

 

[salad]

Looking to see sme pictures of a cw34 but I guess much like a Fisher where the 37 always looked good but I read they didn’t tack too well? Loads of nauticat around of course at 331 etc. please you have a model in mind but don’t close you mind to others should one pop up -get out there and kick a few CW tyres and post a few photos -amazing what boat history can be unearthed.

Unfortunately, I've now seen the Nauticat 44. So has my wife.

OK - I can see how you reached that conclusion, as at a similar stage of decision making to you, having also come from a powerboat background (although a dinghy sailor too) we reached the same conclusion... ...our view changed throughout the hunting/buying process and here's why:

1. Once my wife actually did CC course and sailed a yacht I discovered the smile on her face when we are motoring along, raise the sails and turn the engine off. The silence starts, the ripple of water emerges and huge smile emerges almost instantly. I would never have expected it from her. She never complained about the engine noise on our powerboat. She never enjoyed dinghy sailing. She likes paddleboarding - perhaps there was a clue there that switching off ticks her box.
2. Most (but not all) motorsailors are pretty old and dated inside. I think any in your budget will be needing TLC to make it a nice place to be.
3. I don't think they are particularly spacious inside! That view may be controversial, compare to a similar length boat of the same era they are, but compared to a modern Ben/Jen/Bav which has been designed to appeal to the cruising user. What you want from space may be different to other people. If an average modern "beginner" customer wanted the space and layout of a typical motorsailer then B/J/B would have an offering for that market - of course the average B/J/B customer isn't based in largs so may be more interested in bathing platforms etc, however you talk about taking guests etc - only the biggest motorcruisers will have space for that. Some of the best "living" spaces I've seen are really 2+2. Some of the aft cabin arrangements require you to go "outside" to get from saloon to cabin (or cabin to heads!). Some of the forepeak v=berth arrangements are old school where you are basically sharing space with the anchor locker etc!
4. Outdoor/cockpit space. Everything you say about a wheelhouse is true and a very strong argument for one. BUT most have lost a lot of cockpit space as the compromise. Scotland does get nice weather sometimes. We concluded we would rather be outside for that if we are sailing or at anchor.
5. With the Ben/Jen/Bav examples once you've been on a Bav34 2 cabin or a Jen32.2 etc you can actually judge a lot virtually. A lot of the Colvic's etc are DIY/custom and so you will need to see them in person to see if they suit.
6. Seasickness - we have sufferers here. Fresh air, being outside looking at the horizon, actually steering the boat are all actually helpful to avoid it. I've not tested it, but I suspect that being inside a motorsailer wheelhouse might be worse than being on deck. If the engine is running, there's cooking smells etc - it certainly won't be better. I suspect modern times means kids more likely to play with phone/tablet in wheel house (or read a book if old school) which will make them more susceptible. I'm not convinced you are going to keep them focussed on a mizzen sail - depending where you are going once its set you might not touch it again for hours!
7. Keeping warm/comfortable - 100% a wheelhouse must be better BUT a sprayhood is actually pretty effective on average "meh" days. If your fear is the family all huddling under the sprayhood whilst you get attacked on the helm - consider making an autopilot a higher priority. In reality you just bought some fancy waterproofs - use them, and if its too bad for that do you really need/want to go exploring?
8. Safety for little people etc - which my family are I think a bit older than yours, as we actually got used to sailing yachts we realised there is often little reason to leave the cockpit on a modern yacht. There may even be some risk compensation from high bulwarks etc. Also, many are older school designs where the lines are not all led back to the cockpit, meaning you may need to walk about more to raise sails etc!
9. Windage for your marina berthing etc will be harder (and long keels typically add fun too). As a beginner, a BenJenBav or similar modern design may be more forgiving. Even if you think you can learn the tricks etc - will it mean that coming alongside becomes "your" chore rather than something the whole family learns to do with confidence?

Now your experiences and decisions will be different but I honestly don't think I appreciated half those points until I was actually sailing yachts with my family either on courses or on charter, and for the others my priorities have changed/evolved as the family have been absorbed by sailing and got more into it rather than being passengers.

There's a reason AWBs are popular - they suit a lot of people's needs. It would be easy to say your needs are different - but have a walk around Largs marina - there's a lot more AWBs than motorsailers and there's no shortage of English accents, families etc... you may be more average than you think!

We can always swap later, depending on how we find things. Viewings to do first and I'm only looking for a pro fit out, no DIY. Theres no rush. My crystal balls say prices will dip in May, so the whole situation may change.

 

[ashtead]

There is a Nauticat 40 something at Haslar -never sailed on one but I guess over £100k secondhand -think it’s a 43 with air conditioning of course and a genset etc but with extra toys come extra bills. ??

 

[38mess]

I haven't read through the whole thread so excuse me if I'm repeating a reply.
Can you find someone to take you sailing to see if you like it? Or failing that if you have your heart set on buying a boat, I would suggest you buy a relatively cheap and easy to sell on boat, like a westerly.

I know of a young couple in our club that spent years and lots of money and time renovating a yacht that they were going to sail around the world on.

On the maiden voyage they hit fog in the Irish sea and called for help, they got a tow back off a fishing boat and decided sailing wasn't for them and the boat was up for sale for a few years.

 

[salad]

There is a Nauticat 40 something at Haslar -never sailed on one but I guess over £100k secondhand -think it’s a 43 with air conditioning of course and a genset etc but with extra toys come extra bills. ??

Theres a nice one for sale at the moment. It's £150k. Thats a possible upgrade path but I think to spend that kind of cash a relatively normal person would have to be pretty sure they want it. Still, they hold their money.

 

[salad]

I haven't read through the whole thread so excuse me if I'm repeating a reply.
Can you find someone to take you sailing to see if you like it? Or failing that if you have your heart set on buying a boat, I would suggest you buy a relatively cheap and easy to sell on boat, like a westerly.

I know of a young couple in our club that spent years and lots of money and time renovating a yacht that they were going to sail around the world on.

On the maiden voyage they hit fog in the Irish sea and called for help, they got a tow back off a fishing boat and decided sailing wasn't for them and the boat was up for sale for a few years.

All good dont worry.

I'm very marine oriented so not concerned about whether I like boating or not, this will be our first proper boat aside from ribs, and we have wanted this for decades, so not a new idea.

Thats a shame about that couple. Hopefully they at least made a profit on their endeavours.

 

[ashtead]

I think if it’s the one in Troon ? Might be just worth a look - has all the comfort you might want but perhaps not a first sailboat. They have a lovely quality to them - dare I say a poor man’s Jongert in grp.