If you had to choose a <£30k yacht from the market right now, which would it be?

[salad]

Haha yes I've no idea why he didn't include more pictures. The inside is actually rather nice and includes an oak kitchen top, among other niceties which are obviously not original, along with a built in spirit bar to keep the booze safe on passage! He even replaced the ladder with some steps ?

I'm not trying to sell it btw, I mentioned it just because it's very local and a good boat

It looks like it's missing half the cabin to me.

I once went on a racing yacht, well, technically it would have been a racer/cruiser I think but it was used for some kind of racing by a very enthusiastic wealthy owner. It was gorgeous but stripped out quite a lot. I think even the stanchions were titanium, it was dripping with the stuff Worth many millions I am sure.

 

[lustyd]

The stanchions are ti on this one. There's actually a lot of headroom below, but that lack of cabin top does mean plenty of space on deck for sunbathing and sailing. It's surprising how good of a cruiser a racer can make. That said, I have a Jeanneau

 

[salad]

The stanchions are ti on this one. There's actually a lot of headroom below, but that lack of cabin top does mean plenty of space on deck for sunbathing and sailing. It's surprising how good of a cruiser a racer can make. That said, I have a Jeanneau

I think everyone should have a carbon fibre mast in their life and purple annodised bits. late 90's MTB style.

 

[lustyd]

I think everyone should have a carbon fibre mast in their life and purple annodised bits. late 90's MTB style.

Completely agree, I still have my 1995 Kona Kilauea with ti and annodised bits all over it!

 

[salad]

Completely agree, I still have my 1995 Kona Kilauea with ti and annodised bits all over it!

Beneteau First 456 | 14m | 1983 | Boats and Outboards

 

[salad]

Just seen this. Quite tempted to be honest. Anything Scandinavian is good by me generally. Fair price too.

LM 30 for sale UK, LM boats for sale, LM used boat sales, LM Sailing Yachts For Sale LM 30 Motor Sailer - Apollo Duck

 

[Concerto]

Beneteau First 456 | 14m | 1983 | Boats and Outboards

I always wonder what is under a vinyl wrap. Was the hull surface showing a poor repair, lots of knocks and scrapes, thin gel coat, etc., etc., etc. Personally I am not keen on the colour.

 

[ashtead]

A LM 30 which is local and to protect you from the snow and ice etc I don’t know anything about the price but surely worth a look.

 

[salad]

A LM 30 which is local and to protect you from the snow and ice etc I don’t know anything about the price but surely worth a look.

It has a motorhome style galley hob, which is weird. Not much use when underway I wouldn't have thought.

Details on the add are sparse and I can't get on the brokers web site or find any details about them really. A bit odd.

Anyone dealt with Clyde Boat Sales?

 

[salad]

I always wonder what is under a vinyl wrap. Was the hull surface showing a poor repair, lots of knocks and scrapes, thin gel coat, etc., etc., etc. Personally I am not keen on the colour.

I dunno but it has to be nicer looking than that gold/brown colour. It reminds me of my dads old car, a fiat mirafiori


Copyright Telegraph or someone.

 

[Concerto]

I dunno but it has to be nicer looking than that gold/brown colour. It reminds me of my dads old car, a fiat mirafiori

View attachment 141098
Copyright Telegraph or someone.

Having a distinctive colour boat could be a problem for anyone who makes a pigs ear of anything like berthing. You would be so easy to spot coming but for the wrong reasons.

I agree that is a sh*tty coloured car.

 

[ashtead]

As to the galley on the LM I guess good if parked up and perhaps not much cooking on voyage unless under motor. There are a number of LM about so maybe an owner will tell more but would not put me off . Plenty of other jobs to do ,but boat ovens even the 3 burner version are generally fairly poor unless you go upmarket say electric? or a1000 gbp retrofit. I guess a microwave might be more use often. They have that type on small mobo though I believe.

 

[PhillM]

I’m with those who say go sailing and do courses first. Even if that’s only for a year. Then at least you will be making a buying decision from a position of knowledge. Do the Dayskipper, Diesel engine, sea survival and perhaps even radar. Go on some mile building trips and get some experience.

Absolutely do not learn while trying to teach the family. That’s how many kids get out off. What they need is a competent dad skipper. So become competent first then get the daily involved.

 

[PhillM]

It's a bit small for the family to spend a week on after driving 4 hours. Otherwise, it's a lovely little boat.

Why don’t you spend 100k on a small family holiday home at say, mercury marina, join a club and day sail a small boat? Something for everyone in the family.

 

[obmij]

What is the best boat in the world?

A friends boat!

Seriously - boat ownership is a job, and one that you pay handsomely to carry out. It is strictly for those who are absolutely committed to boating because (and you have not experienced this yet) the downsides can come pretty fcking close to overwhelming the upsides. especially with an older boat.

Wherever you keep your boat - that is where you are pretty much obliged to go for as long as you own it. As I understand it that is going to be a four hour trip. Fair enough - but more often than not your eight hour return commute will be to 'sort something' rather than enjoy a fast reach to a deserted anchorage and more frequently than you will like, you will not manage to sort what you came to sort because the parts required to do so will be 4 hours drive away

This is all fine if you love being on the water and are going into boat ownership with open eyes and most importantly YOU KNOW THAT YOU LIKE SAILING & BEING ON BOATS . Sorry to shout but that bit is quite important and from what I understand (correct me if I am wrong) you do not know this and have not actually been sailing yet in any meaningful way.

You are a skier, so may I present an parallel?
(like what I did there?)

Right now what you are proposing is analogous to someone who likes the idea of skiing, but has never been, buying a small apartment in Flaine sight unseen, and then ordering boots, skis, and an avalanche kit off the internet before departure. You know what would happen - the apartment would be tiny and need extensive modernisation, the boots would be too big and loose, the skis wouldn't turn before you hit 30 kph and you would look very well prepared on the nursery slope with a shovel, transponder and multiple carabiners attached to your backpack (that is if you got to the nursery slope and were not too busy fixing the electrics in the new apartment)

So - as an experienced winter sports enthusiast, if you were asked on a forum by a keen newbie which apartment to buy and which bindings go well with X9 Redsters, might you suggest that they just get out there on the snow, take some lessons and enjoy themselves?

 

[Airscrew]

I will try offer some thoughts and suggestion.
I 100% agree with get a cheaper boat first, learn to sail, and learn what you like/dont like.

We are relatively new to sailing, and have made an upgrade. So that might be helpful.
We bought, and still have, a 1997 26ft Westerly Centaur on the Hamble. The admiral and I had some tricky experiences early on, but after an excellent 10 day trip 6 summers ago, she loved sailing so much that we also bought a share in a syndicate in a much more modern Bavaria 40 based in Greece.
So we have an 'old' occasional weekend UK yacht, and a regular holiday 2 or 3 times a year yacht in Greece.
You could afford and consider a holiday yacht share in Greece, I think, but it wouldnt be a weekender!!.

So, questions.
If your other half is an important part of the decision, and usage, then these are worth considering.
Non sailing other halves find a wheel easier than a tiller.
There may be uproar from the forum, but they just do.
Looks and smells may be important. An older Westerly (ie the Fulmar), and indeed other types, just look so dated to non-sailors.
If youre in Scotland, defo consider heating.
And pressurised hot water, on a family boat.
And a proper shower.
And with a family, defo buy a yacht with a proper heads and with a door. If you buy anything under 26/28ft, that might be a problem.
So based on those criteria, if important to you, get the most recent boat you can afford, with a low hours, or replacement engine.
They are not cheap to replace. Dont ask!!
Bilge keel or fin? Probably dont need a bilge keel if based in Scotland, but dont discount them too quickly.
Will you ever sail alone?
Or even with company, will you need to handle the boat almost alone?
Big genoas can be a handful to tack single handed, and perhaps very heavy work for other halves.
A self tacking jib (ie on a Hanse) might be a thought.
Mainsheet winches on the coachroof are a pain. Consider a track near the helm if you need to control the boat alone.
And some yachts have main winches (jib/genoa) that you cant easily reach from the helm.
Jeanneau and Hanse are better than some in that respect.

So my suggestion, if you want to learn/develop safely and in real affordable family comfort, consider a Hunter, even though many people on here will hate the suggestion.
Sadly, nothing on the market right now ticks all these (my) boxes, but have a good look at these:

1997 Hunter Channel 323 Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

2002 Hanse 301 Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

2000 Hanse 301 Racer/Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

1990 Moody 31 MkII Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

1998 Dufour 30 Classic Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

1994 Sadler 32 Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

 

[salad]

What is the best boat in the world?

A friends boat!

Seriously - boat ownership is a job, and one that you pay handsomely to carry out. It is strictly for those who are absolutely committed to boating because (and you have not experienced this yet) the downsides can come pretty fcking close to overwhelming the upsides. especially with an older boat.

Wherever you keep your boat - that is where you are pretty much obliged to go for as long as you own it. As I understand it that is going to be a four hour trip. Fair enough - but more often than not your eight hour return commute will be to 'sort something' rather than enjoy a fast reach to a deserted anchorage and more frequently than you will like, you will not manage to sort what you came to sort because the parts required to do so will be 4 hours drive away

This is all fine if you love being on the water and are going into boat ownership with open eyes and most importantly YOU KNOW THAT YOU LIKE SAILING & BEING ON BOATS . Sorry to shout but that bit is quite important and from what I understand (correct me if I am wrong) you do not know this and have not actually been sailing yet in any meaningful way.

You are a skier, so may I present an parallel?
(like what I did there?)

Right now what you are proposing is analogous to someone who likes the idea of skiing, but has never been, buying a small apartment in Flaine sight unseen, and then ordering boots, skis, and an avalanche kit off the internet before departure. You know what would happen - the apartment would be tiny and need extensive modernisation, the boots would be too big and loose, the skis wouldn't turn before you hit 30 kph and you would look very well prepared on the nursery slope with a shovel, transponder and multiple carabiners attached to your backpack (that is if you got to the nursery slope and were not too busy fixing the electrics in the new apartment)

So - as an experienced winter sports enthusiast, if you were asked on a forum by a keen newbie which apartment to buy and which bindings go well with X9 Redsters, might you suggest that they just get out there on the snow, take some lessons and enjoy themselves?

I appreciate what you've written but this will be my third boat. The others were just ribs and I've never technically been sailing, but I love water, fishing, marine life, the coast and anything to do with it, so I'm not really worried about whether I'll enjoy it or not. I'm mad about all things water related. Luckily, my wife is too, which is a huge part of it.

I've skied in Flaine and Morrilon funnily enough, quite a few times. It rained and snow was often wet and poor but it wasn't too bad up high, although the transit pistes were awfully crowded. Vin chaud was nice. Gave up on France and went to freeze my butt off in Austria instead at 3000m. Only complaint so far was one grumpy lift operator in Obergurgl who touched my ski's inappropriately.

People need to hear the sort of thing you typed because it's true, loads of people have rose tinted spectacles, especially now, you can just tell as motorhomes and boats fly off the shelves. Many of them will be back on the market next year, no doubt about it.

 

[salad]

Why don’t you spend 100k on a small family holiday home at say, mercury marina, join a club and day sail a small boat? Something for everyone in the family.

That would be a very very small house, surely?

Considered that type of arrangement, but I think we're more looking for a step away from land, rather than further investment into it. Not much good for fishing.

 

[salad]

Hi everyone,

We've made a decision here at home and it's been agreed with the admiral. By way of a thank you to everyone for their input, I wanted to update this thread and give it some sort of conclusion.

After much back and forth with our goals in mind, we think that the best thing for our situation is going to be a motorsailer. Specifically, something like a Colvic Watson 34 or possibly a Fisher.

As we live far away and the chosen cruising ground is Scotland, no matter how much we plan, the weather will do it's thing. The additional volume afforded by the hull design and pilothouse is worth the sacrifice in sailing performance for us. Were we to get the same usable internal volume on a racer/cruiser, I suspect we'd be looking at a 40 footer, which just isn't realistic for us, neither in terms of cost, or crew availability/handling, not yet anyway.

If we lived an hour from the boat, I'd probably go for a racer/cruiser, as we could pop along to it in fine weather whenever we liked. As that isn't the case, we need a true home from home, which I think, in the absence of a truly large sailing yacht, the motorsailer provides. Additionally, we believe the extra shelter will encourage us to go sailing more often, even in winter and to explore further afield than we may do if we had a yacht. Rain, which we expect a lot of, doesn't really come into it as much if you're sat in a pilothouse. It's large enough for the whole family to be there with the person at the helm, whilst staying warm and dry. A big plus. Might even reduce seasickness.

My vision of safety for children has played a part here too. The guardrails are higher, walking around on the boat is less cluttered with rigging and the flared bow offers additional shelter. Freeboard is much greater. I'd be more comfortable with kids/guests on the motorsailer I think, which will aid confidence. I noted that on some yachts, particularly smaller ones, the cockpit was very shallow, which I admit made me nervous, especially with a boom overhead.

I need to look into it, but the CW34 also appears to take a relatively serious tender, rather than just a small inflatable. This will help with coastal exploration. Some measuring to do, but a 3.4m rib with a 15hp seems relatively plausible, the steel hull giving davits a strong fixing point.

The major negative of course is sailing performance, with most people saying that something like the CW34 requires an F3 to get going. I can believe that, but I think it's an acceptable trade off, since our goal is to explore, rather than explicitly sail for sailings sake or racing. I'd be happy to motor a bit and get a boost from the sails. I like the fact that the CW is ketch rigged, as I can potentially give our son responsibility for the mizzen, to keep him engaged. Ultimately I'd like to do more sailing than motoring, but having options is good.

I have some measuring to do, but on the CW, there might even be the possibility of taking our push bikes and have them not be covered in spray constantly, which wasn't really possible on a smaller yacht I didn't think?

Guests are another factor. The CW34 has a true aft cabin, completely separate from the saloon. This is a boon for taking kids or guests. Shared heads admittedly, but still, it affords some privacy and/or gives the kids their own "den". We didn't feel like we would be comfortably able to accommodate guests for a week on a 32-34 ft yacht and in many of them, there was a lack of cabin doors, although I suppose these could have been fitted. A lot of the smaller yachts also didn't really have anywhere to dry kit other than the heads, maybe one or two had a locker. The CW offers some options, with the aft cabin and pilothouse space.

Another major point is that I don't really see a medium term need for a change of boat. I can see us getting at least 10 years out of a CW34 for it's £50k price tag, whereas on a sailboat, I think we'd be pining for a 40 footer long before then. I can see why theres a major change in price at 40ft, as if you want to do longer cruises with a family and guests, even a 38 may be pushing it. Obviously it depends on what people like to do and what they take with them, etc etc.

I am very grateful to everyone who took the time to respond and as I gain experience, I hope to be able to help others in turn. My DS theory gubbins just turned up today, so looking forward to cracking on with the course.

 

[Frogmogman]

Hi everyone,

We've made a decision here at home and it's been agreed with the admiral. By way of a thank you to everyone for their input, I wanted to update this thread and give it some sort of conclusion.

After much back and forth with our goals in mind, we think that the best thing for our situation is going to be a motorsailer. Specifically, something like a Colvic Watson 34 or possibly a Fisher.

As we live far away and the chosen cruising ground is Scotland, no matter how much we plan, the weather will do it's thing. The additional volume afforded by the hull design and pilothouse is worth the sacrifice in sailing performance for us. Were we to get the same usable internal volume on a racer/cruiser, I suspect we'd be looking at a 40 footer, which just isn't realistic for us, neither in terms of cost, or crew availability/handling, not yet anyway.

If we lived an hour from the boat, I'd probably go for a racer/cruiser, as we could pop along to it in fine weather whenever we liked. As that isn't the case, we need a true home from home, which I think, in the absence of a truly large sailing yacht, the motorsailer provides. Additionally, we believe the extra shelter will encourage us to go sailing more often, even in winter and to explore further afield than we may do if we had a yacht. Rain, which we expect a lot of, doesn't really come into it as much if you're sat in a pilothouse. It's large enough for the whole family to be there with the person at the helm, whilst staying warm and dry. A big plus. Might even reduce seasickness.

My vision of safety for children has played a part here too. The guardrails are higher, walking around on the boat is less cluttered with rigging and the flared bow offers additional shelter. Freeboard is much greater. I'd be more comfortable with kids/guests on the motorsailer I think, which will aid confidence. I noted that on some yachts, particularly smaller ones, the cockpit was very shallow, which I admit made me nervous, especially with a boom overhead.

I need to look into it, but the CW34 also appears to take a relatively serious tender, rather than just a small inflatable. This will help with coastal exploration. Some measuring to do, but a 3.4m rib with a 15hp seems relatively plausible, the steel hull giving davits a strong fixing point.

The major negative of course is sailing performance, with most people saying that something like the CW34 requires an F3 to get going. I can believe that, but I think it's an acceptable trade off, since our goal is to explore, rather than explicitly sail for sailings sake or racing. I'd be happy to motor a bit and get a boost from the sails. I like the fact that the CW is ketch rigged, as I can potentially give our son responsibility for the mizzen, to keep him engaged. Ultimately I'd like to do more sailing than motoring, but having options is good.

I have some measuring to do, but on the CW, there might even be the possibility of taking our push bikes and have them not be covered in spray constantly, which wasn't really possible on a smaller yacht I didn't think?

Guests are another factor. The CW34 has a true aft cabin, completely separate from the saloon. This is a boon for taking kids or guests. Shared heads admittedly, but still, it affords some privacy and/or gives the kids their own "den". We didn't feel like we would be comfortably able to accommodate guests for a week on a 32-34 ft yacht and in many of them, there was a lack of cabin doors, although I suppose these could have been fitted. A lot of the smaller yachts also didn't really have anywhere to dry kit other than the heads, maybe one or two had a locker. The CW offers some options, with the aft cabin and pilothouse space.

Another major point is that I don't really see a medium term need for a change of boat. I can see us getting at least 10 years out of a CW34 for it's £50k price tag, whereas on a sailboat, I think we'd be pining for a 40 footer long before then. I can see why theres a major change in price at 40ft, as if you want to do longer cruises with a family and guests, even a 38 may be pushing it. Obviously it depends on what people like to do and what they take with them, etc etc.

I am very grateful to everyone who took the time to respond and as I gain experience, I hope to be able to help others in turn. My DS theory gubbins just turned up today, so looking forward to cracking on with the course.

Good choice for the chosen cruising area, though I’m pretty certain that a CW 34 is GRP rather than steel (the clue being in the Colvic part of the name - they moulded the hulls for GL Watson &Co.)

You could also consider a Nauticat 33, which was also available with a ketch rig IIRC.