Ideal Kedge Anchor for Bavaria 36 of 5.5 tons

[TonyS]

I have a 6 week old Bavaria 36 based on the Solent that we are very pleased with. We have 360 miles on the log and have had 8.2 knots as maximum speed. It is beautifully finished and also economical 0.4 gal/hr over first 50 hrs. However we still do not have a kedge anchor. What is the ideal kedge both for use - light so it can be lowered into the dinghy and released, good holding power and also a good price/performance ratio. I have seen the correspondence on the Bruce. My feeling is that an aluminium Spade, model 80 of 7 kg would be good but what do experienced members of the forum think and what do they use. Also suggestions on the best place to buy and how much chain, metal type and length are considered best.

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[tony_brighton]

The owners manual should recommend a kedge. Mine (Bav 34) talks about a 12kg grapnel with 5m chain and 25m warp. Personally I'm going to ignore this and probably go with a Fortress or similar anchor.

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[jimi]

I'd go for a Brittany, they're easily stowed and hold well. 10m of chain and plenty of warp. MOre chain is probably going to be a bit awkward to stow.

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[vyv_cox]

An aluminium anchor is far better for your back. We use a Fortress F16 on 7 metres of chain plus Anchorplait, on a Sadler 34 same displacement. It's fine for daytime use and very easy to handle. No doubt the Spade would be good at maybe twice the price or more.

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[hylas]

For a Kedge, you need a lightweight anchor.. On one previous thread we talked about the French anchor test done by the magazine Voiles & Voiliers published in mai.. The overall winer was the A 80 Spade (6.5 kg) with 720 kg of holding (they stop the test at 720 kg in the fear to break the leaded line..) (441 Euros)..

and the Fortress (6.5 kg) did reach 275 kg of holding for a price of 520 euros.. with a fatal break out and no more setting..

Do you have any idea of the right choice?? :0)..

For the best place to buy: www.bluewatersupply.com

About the line 5 meters of 10 mm chain and Nylon rope directly spliced ONTO the chain see: http://www.bluemoment.com/warpchainsplice.html

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[steve_cronin]

I agree with everyone so far posted!

My Bavaria 42 has the Brittany recommended by Bav. but it is very heavy and gelcoat unfriendly to use so I never have!

I had a Fortress on my last boat and it was really easy to deploy but unsafe to rely upon in a tideway as it would trip and refuse to reset when the tide changed.

On the two previous boats I had a bloody great folding grapnel which would hit and hold first time every time.

There are several bavarias in Levkas Marina with Fortresses as kedges in use on charter duty. None of these boats seems the worse for it.

Steve Cronin

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[vyv_cox]

I don't remember the price of my Fortress but I can assure you there is absolutely no way I would have spent 520 Euros on it. It's listed in my Dutch mail order catalogue at 360 Euro at the moment.

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[hylas]

Re: Yates Allemanes

All Bavaria boats imported by the Spanish importer "Yates Allemanes" in Palma de Majorque are now standard equiped with the Spade anchor...

- the Britany anchor never has been recommended by Bavaria, but probably was fitted by the U.K. importer because it is one of the cheapest on the market..

- Model Spade Alu A 80 price is at: - Euro 325 (see www.spade-anchor.com)

- A grapnel is... a grapnel!!.. and has nearly no holding, except wedged in between two rocks?? like any lump of metal..

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[dk]

Tony

It depends if you ever want to use the kedge as a back up bower anchor. If it's just to be a kedge, I would go for a Fortress with 10m chain & 25m of 3-ply nylon rope or Anchorplait. The Fortress holds brilliantly when the pull more or less remains in the same direction all the time. As a back up I would buy an ally Spade. In all the tests I have carried out the Spade wins hands down as a bower.

Duncan

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[Anchorite]

Re: Drag Queens

The very interesting series of anchor tests in Voiles et Voiliers (Mai 2003) produced
several side results: the tests were on sand and gravel. None of the 4 light models
tested held in gravel: the max figures (sand/gravel) are in kgs:
6.5 kgs Spade: 650/70. 8.5 kgs FOB E20: 350/80. 6.5 kgs Fortress: 370/25.
However, the main article concerned heavy anchors - tests on 16 models around
15 kgs. Surprise - Old Faithful is right up there! Results:
16.5 kgs CQR Lewmar: 900/650. 20 Brake MPI: 1000/400. 15 Spade 900/300.
FOB was 6th, Delta 10th, Britany 11th and Claw Lewmar last (150/100: this is a
Bruce look-alike). All the look-alikes fared poorly compared to the originals.

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[ccscott49]

I've just bought a monster great big FOB, for the meddy as my bower it's great and easy to stow. They also make an aluminium one which I guess would also be good holding, anyway, give it some consideration.

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[hylas]

Like other "fluke" anchors.. the FOB is an Unstable anchor and under heavy pull.. it corkscrews and breaks out..
This has been clearely demonstrated during last PBO tests done by Pr John Knox.. and once more during the last frenchies tests from Voiles & Voiliers..

To give it some consideration?? Why not?? but folowing which criteria???
Yes, a "monster great Big" one will have more holding that a standard competitive one.. but what about the extra weight at your Bow??

About the Alu model?? At the V & V test.. the Fob light didn't achieve half the holding of the Spade aluminum..

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[tony_brighton]

Currently got a small-ish CQR on the bow with a reasonable amount of chain and warp - this is because the windlass is mark 1 muscles at present. Its worked great so far but longer term plans mean I'll probably upgrade the bower to a spade + all chain + windlass. In which case a Fortress would be a suitable kedge (only).

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[tony_brighton]

Has you Dutch mail order catalogue/supplier got a website?

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[steve_cronin]

Re: Yates Allemanes

To your first.

How's that then? Let 'im 'av 'em cheap does 'e?

The Britany is fitted by the Bavaria people in La Rochelle, a posh place in the South of France that escapes my memory just now and Isola Slovenia.

I thought as advertising were banned on these 'ere forums?

They b'ain't actually "grapnels" in the strict Long John Silver vein me deerio, they have spoon shaped flukes, often quite wide so do have a degree of holding. I once was the only boat in Alderney (you'm call 'e Aurigny I believe?) harbour once - before the laid moorings was there, holding all night on a massive folding grapnel whilst all the others, Centaurs, Konsorts and Contessas dragged as a raft passed me in the moonlight!

"Horses for courses" don't 'e know?

Now a book that tells me "All there is to know about mooring up?" Now that'UD be a VERY remarkable book indeed! (In my opinion!)

Steve Cronin

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[hylas]

Re: Yates Allemanes

Sorry Steve to have expressed my sailor opinions on this Forum..

Some poeple says that I'm a specialist of the mooring questions???..

I'm very happy to talk with every body about ALL questions related to the mooring, including anchors..

Have a look again at the comments of Pr John Knox on his last anchors study on PBO july and August 2002 about the Britany anchors.. But if you believe it is a very safe anchor and if you also want to equip your boat with a grapnel.. Please feel free to do that.. as it is not on my own boat.. I don't care..

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[steve_cronin]

Re: Yates Allemanes

I have no love for the Britany. I havn't even used it! It will soon get replaced with a Fortress.

I was dismayed that you dismissed the (more correctly named) "Folding Anchor" which is a folding grapnel with wide flukes. It has many uses aboard a boat and I have used it for severral of those many over the last 30 years or so. The best I ever had was bought at the Co-operative Maritime just above the roadbridge in Treguier but alas it was lost in Babbacombe Bay S Devon when the chain parted. I could see it in the clear water eight metres down, caught by a rock buit I could not retreive it.

There are so many situations that make it impossible to have a universal anchor for all situations but up to now i have found the plough to be the best all rounder of all but I have no experience of your "Spade" However to continue discussing it with the inventor might just get interpreted as "advertising" here!

Steve Cronin

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[marchhare]

Looking at the post's in the "Bavaria Visit" thread on the forum I would think that the chip on the shoulder of the Old Salts would be more than adequate for any Bavaria!!

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[hylas]

Re: Yates Allemanes

Steve?
do you mean that as I was competent enough to "invent" two outstanding anchors, will prevent me for talking about this subject??

Everybody know who I am.. and on the posts, I always avoid to give MY OWN OPINION, but only FACTS published in independant magazines or independant studies-.. I always try to be objective.. and if sometime I don't.. I hope that most of you will forgive me.

If you want to buy a Fortress.. please DO.. but you should be informed about the negative comments published in the latest tests done by Voiles & voiliers.. (and others)

"Folding anchors" and "grapnel" are two different products.. I have had the occasion to test a Grapnel together with the French magazine "Voiles Magazine" and the journalist who was a really "Oldsalt" was telling me that this grapnel, and the Fisherman anchor (folding) were the only anchors to work in "grass".. then we go on a place full of grass (zosteres) and none of them did hold at all..

Then I sugested to give a trial with "new generation" anchors (trying to not advertise.. :0) ) and they dig in at the first attempt and held..

From our own tests, the holding of a grapnel is less than 1/10 the holding of an Océane anchor.. and unless you can find different results in different tests, I will continue to say that a grapnel has nearly NO HOLDING.. but I agree with you, it has some uses on a boat.. for example to be wedged in between two trees or to rocks on the shore side or to free your line engaged under an other mooring chain..

I agree also "There are so many situations that make it impossible to have a universal anchor for all situations" but one anchor which will hold in most situation is a very safe tool to have onboard..
The anchor field is like all other fields.. there is place for improvement.. all anchors you are talking about have been designed more than 70 years ago.. will you still buy a car designed 70 years ago??

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[vyv_cox]

Yes, look<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.georgekniest.nl/>here</A> Click zoeken (search) and enter "anker". Listed prices are:

66060 Fortress anker 1.8kg FX 7 € 99,-


66061 Fortress anker 3.2kg FX 11 € 129,-


66062 Fortress anker 4.5kg FX 16 € 199,-


66063 Fortress anker 6.8kg FX 23 € 339,-


66064 Fortress anker 9.5kg FX 37 € 519,-

These all include VAT. Shipping prices under "voorwaarden"



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