I am a simple soul

[BarryH]

I've read the above seventy odd posts with interest. Some of it is true, some of it is total bollox. I know a few firemen,nurses, police etc. The one question you've got to ask yourself and no one has, Would YOU do that job for that money. I know I bloody wouldn't. On the other hand, if you were standing outside your house with a loved one trapped inside, whats the firefighter worth to you then.

I am now going to retire from this post and don my flame proof undies, ta ta.

 

[tcm]

Re: dangerous teritory

ah no, the one thing you cannot do when discussing the public services is take any notice of individual cases, of personal circumstances. Theyare public services, of a certain standard. Because the standard is not high enough, Mrs wassername or her kids or the whole family will die, perhaps tonight. Likewise, discussion of free or partially free health services cannot validly include explosions such as "you heartless git, my mother would have died on the spot had it not been for... !!!""

Now, of course, many don't want to handle the idea of setting the standard, or setting the budget.

But imho it's a bit crap that (evidently) the politicians who set out to govern this sort of thing also can't handle the idea of curtting the services, and on this issue the later Tories were no better than the current New Milk Monitor party.

 

[BarryH]

Re: dangerous teritory

OK agree with that, but this is all about money and value for money. So on that basis, the firefighters give quiet a bit. In a few, granted very rarely thank god, their lives. So on that basis how come the massive bloody wage hike Mr tony B Liar got sush sushed and push quietly aside. So do you (in the general term) get value for money out of him and his crinies?

 

[Aja]

Re: We drifted here

The soldiers cant wear the 'proper' clothes. The Firefighters are all being filmed wearing them on picket lines.

 

[webcraft]

Re: The Sons of Nippon

Errr . . .

Isn't the Japanese economy totally buggered right now?

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue> -

BlueMoment.Com
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com/>http://www.bluemoment.com/</A>

 

[Solwaycruiser]

Re: Fork lift wages argument doesn\'t work

In answer to your questions-

A firefighter does 42 hours per week

A firefighter may retire after 30 years

A firefighter will be more likely to be made redundent under the bain proposals than now but probably less likely than a forkliftdriver

A forklift driver probably doesn't have the same pension terms as a firefighter

A forklift driver probably doesn't have as many days anual leave as a firefighter

HOWEVER

A forklift driver probably does 35 hours per week

A forklift driver won't be paying 11% of his wages towards his pension GUARANTEED

If a forklift driver is made redundant there will be somewhere else he can be employed as a forklift driver

As for this theoretical forklift driver I am sure that when he is on annual leave he will not have to use leave to be off when he wasn't due to work anyway IE if he has 10 days holiday it will be 10 working days off not 8 working days plus 2 weekend days

And if this theoretical forklift driver happens to work for one of the big multinationals like ICI/Dupont they will work a 35 hour week, have more holidays, retire after 30 years without paying 11% of their income towards it, and get paid the wages that a firefighter aspires to

 

[claymore]

Re: The Sons of Nippon

Yes of course it is - so in turn their management has not been too special, I was trying to focus more on the fact that our own working practices are to blame for us easing away from being a manufacturing nation to a service nation.

regards
Claymore

 

[claymore]

Ouch

Below the belt as ever - get the daughter on, I need to discuss your eviction with her!

regards
Claymore

 

[tcm]

Burning the Reichstag

hmm, unfortunately tblair etc are the managers, and as such they're supposed to be getting the value from the workers, in turn themselves being of value.

Fact is, t blair quite agrees with the idea of withdrawal of labour, basic human right see. So, unlikely that inthe middle of a war on terrorism the firemen will be shot for desertion.

Can't agree with fireman "giving quite a bit". It's a 2days on a 6 days off, with two more days on call (almost never called out) so lots of them have other jobs, and you'll notice they are desperate not to talk about conditions, just the 40% or "8.50 take home" which also include the on call time, ta.

We could of course torch the Houses of P, and kidnap T Blair, and announce simultaneous abolition of income tax, and presidential elections. A fairly high-risk strategy BUT carpe diem, yerknow...

 

[Twister_Ken]

Remember Reagan & Air Traffic Controllers

With a 40:1 applicants:jobs ratio, I'm sure the same management technique could be applied here.

Same treatment might do wonders for London Blunderground as well.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Ouch

If that's the daughter that stays down below with the tea and the rich fruit cake while ageing father struggles manfully with the elements and a mile and a half of anchor chain, maybe your better off, etc etc.

 

[claymore]

Ageing Father

Has nipped to home of said offspring for change of undies and R & R. The continuance of his cutting remarks is more than I can bear and I'm mounting a campaign to have the auld sod evicted and sent back to sea. A mile and a half you say?

regards
Claymore

 

[Mirelle]

Re: The Sons of Nippon

I have in my time been responsible for building ships. What follows is not merely true but typical.

A handysized bulk carrier built in Sunderland in the early 80's took 840,000 man hours, double what a similar ship built in Japan three years earlier had required, partly because the Brits were just going in for block sections, did not trust their cad cam and made everything three inches over length. The main engine, built in Glasgow, was found to have one of its main holding down bolts missing, with just a short length and the nut epoxied in at the top - this practice is condemned by Samuel Plimsoll in his 1874 book, he calls these fake bolts "devils". Another British yard's design department actually said to me, the customer's rep, "Maintenance is the owner's concern, we don't bother about that!". That same yard, which incidentally had a long and famous history- think "Titanic" - had nobody on their staff in the early 90's who had ever chocked a main engine - our superintendent had to show them how - because they had fired all such people. The same yard, when reminded to round the corners off frames before painting (otherwise the paint falls off) issued their workforce with........ files! We had to tell them to buy grinders. Both of these ships were of course late.

At a small Japanese yard in the Mitsubishi group, where we built 9 ships, I spotted a bit of equipment on one which we had not specified - "That's the latest model, it's better than the one you specified so we fitted it!" The yard workforce came up with an average of 90 suggestions per ship on how to make things better and easier to operate. These ships were of course on time.

Now for the interesting bit.

Both the British yards had superb modern equipment, provided by te taxpayer, which the Japanese would have killed for. The Japanese, in leaky wooden sheds, with secondhand tools, built far better ships.

 

[tcm]

New idea- no public services

Last night, three people died in house fires. Now, this does not seem too many to me really. Also there are 19,000 army people trying to do the best they can. BUT the fireman say that three people is normal. Hence, the fireman make no difference at all. So, we don't needem.

Also, the army having 19,000 people hanging about with guns evidently doing sod all up until now would seem a waste. So, let's have them patrolling the streets making sure there's no crime.

AND universities are mostly a waste of space too. Which would free up a lot of student housing. So sack all the local authorities too, and let the those army types unable to walk use the (now unused) firengines to clear the streets of vagrants, and wash the streets of chewing gum. Another v reasonable idea is to sack all the hospital people too, since everyone will die anyway, and it's not doing much good spending public money on stopping poorly people die, only for the bastards to jump out of bed if it goes wrong and nip down the legal advice centre and launch a massive publicly funded legal case against publicly funded health workers. So, no income tax, no legal aid, no free health service BUT lots of money for everyone to buy their own whatever. Legal cases all limited to one day, and massive slammer somewhere cheap like um an island in scotland perhaps. Also no pensions from end 2004, no dole from end 2004, and no paying politicians, and sliding scale of 10 grand-1million for non-residents to turn up and live here. Huge influx of superich with loads of jobs for everyone from film actors to programmers and all sorts. Net result would be masive rise in the value of the pound, allowing us to buy lots of cheap foreign boats, or indeed entire countries. Can't actually see any adverse effects really.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: The Sons of Nippon

Why doesn't any of that surprise me, the pride has gone out of any of the remaing british industries, the morale is piss poor and getting worse, nobody knows if they have a job tomorrow and it's just getting worse, I see no way out of this, no light at the end of a very long tunnel. We are not the only ones suffering with htis disease, but I think we did invent it, or develope it anyway!

 

[ccscott49]

Re: New idea- no public services

Where do I sign up for this, I take care of my own arse now anyway! Health insurance etc. I don't think the fire service come out to boats at sea, so I have my own systems. So I'm up for it, especially getting rid of all politicians and the hangers on!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Another take

All buildings are insured (if not, they deserve to burn down).

So, building on fire, 999, brigade turns up, puts it out.

Brigade claims off insurance company thus:
What value was building/contents insured for (a). What was cost of damage done b4 fire extinguished (b). Brigade bills insurance company (a-b)/2.

Benefits - gets brigade off pubic purse. Motivates brigade to get there quickly - more damage they save, more money they get paid.

 

[tcm]

Re: slightly modified

the insurance compaines should therefore run the fire brigade as they see fit, either on a "fully burnt" basis, or perhaps on a partially soggy basis where they turn up once it's clear that other stuff is gonna catch fire too. Counter-billing introduces too many possibilities of computers, loss adjusters and (shudder) lawyers.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: The Sons of Sam (uncle)

I was in the US a week or so back, and heard exactly the same moans. I brought home a couple of famous brand casual shirts, made in the Solomon Islands!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Looks like this one is going ton-up! nm

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