claymore
Well-known member
let it be me. n.m.
.
regards
Claymore
.
regards
Claymore
I am a simple soul
- Thread starter claymore
- Start date
aztec
Active member
Re: New idea- no public services
i wasn't going to reply, i realise that my position could be called biased and i accept that. by replying i realise that i may put over thoughts that are mine so please don't take things that i say as policy statements, of the fire service of the fire brigages union.
i'm not going to argue, as i feel let down by elements within the campaign for fair pay for fire and rescue service personnel. but please make sure that arguments put forward are valid and backed up by facts that can be ratiied by both parties.
the 79 yr old guy who died in burnley; i never knew him. i probably would have not ever met him, his life would not have impacted on mine. i may have not met his family, nor may never meet his family. so please explain to me why i feel so bad about this, in my opinion if there was a wholetime crew on duty the appliance should have been there withing the home office recomended time of five mins, this i understand was not the case. the gent dies in hospital later.
in my opinion this guy didn't need to die, but he did due to poor fire cover, caused by the duty crew being on strike. the reasons for the strike need to be understood, do not believe it is only about money. if the gov't implements the baine report that initiated this strike, then fire cover will be reduced, if you dont believe me, then download and read the report. I for one will fight to resist this reduction/modernisation of your fire service. not because i'm militant, not because i'm greedy, or have extravagant lifestyle. but because i genuinely believe that the support we as a service provide to our public is worth fighting for.
i've had to deal with fire deaths and accidentdeaths, it part and parcel of my job, it is what is required. i don't need a pat on the back. i and others like me work hard and one day hope to be " in the right place at the right time to make a difference" all we ask is for the public that we serve to allow us the mechanism to carry out our duties. one of these requirements is fair pay, forget about 40% banded around by some inflamatory elements in the press, no one believes that anyone will get a 40% increase in their wages... deserved or not.
the fact exists that it was the labour wages bill, that decided our pay claim of £30K for qualified firefighters, as it was the same bill that decided on 42% for polititions. the baine report was (in my opinion) designed to push us over the edge and take action. an action that was taken with a lot of soul searching and in recent hours, a heavy heart.
please take all the information available and form an honest opinion, not just jump on the bandwagon of shouting down a proffesional team of dedicated people, working within an understaffed and underfunded entity. that is there wholy to serve the public at times when they need it most.
as a footnote, i was on duty last night, on strike, on station, for a potential terrorist incedent. i will be docked 30 hours wages for that action, but it is an action and requirement of me as a public servant, and one which i'm proud to be.
thanks for your patience and support, keep yourself and yours safe.
if you require more inofmation on this subject or fire safety advice, please visit your fire station. although on strike they will be more than pleased to help you... thats what we do.
regards, steve.
i wasn't going to reply, i realise that my position could be called biased and i accept that. by replying i realise that i may put over thoughts that are mine so please don't take things that i say as policy statements, of the fire service of the fire brigages union.
i'm not going to argue, as i feel let down by elements within the campaign for fair pay for fire and rescue service personnel. but please make sure that arguments put forward are valid and backed up by facts that can be ratiied by both parties.
the 79 yr old guy who died in burnley; i never knew him. i probably would have not ever met him, his life would not have impacted on mine. i may have not met his family, nor may never meet his family. so please explain to me why i feel so bad about this, in my opinion if there was a wholetime crew on duty the appliance should have been there withing the home office recomended time of five mins, this i understand was not the case. the gent dies in hospital later.
in my opinion this guy didn't need to die, but he did due to poor fire cover, caused by the duty crew being on strike. the reasons for the strike need to be understood, do not believe it is only about money. if the gov't implements the baine report that initiated this strike, then fire cover will be reduced, if you dont believe me, then download and read the report. I for one will fight to resist this reduction/modernisation of your fire service. not because i'm militant, not because i'm greedy, or have extravagant lifestyle. but because i genuinely believe that the support we as a service provide to our public is worth fighting for.
i've had to deal with fire deaths and accidentdeaths, it part and parcel of my job, it is what is required. i don't need a pat on the back. i and others like me work hard and one day hope to be " in the right place at the right time to make a difference" all we ask is for the public that we serve to allow us the mechanism to carry out our duties. one of these requirements is fair pay, forget about 40% banded around by some inflamatory elements in the press, no one believes that anyone will get a 40% increase in their wages... deserved or not.
the fact exists that it was the labour wages bill, that decided our pay claim of £30K for qualified firefighters, as it was the same bill that decided on 42% for polititions. the baine report was (in my opinion) designed to push us over the edge and take action. an action that was taken with a lot of soul searching and in recent hours, a heavy heart.
please take all the information available and form an honest opinion, not just jump on the bandwagon of shouting down a proffesional team of dedicated people, working within an understaffed and underfunded entity. that is there wholy to serve the public at times when they need it most.
as a footnote, i was on duty last night, on strike, on station, for a potential terrorist incedent. i will be docked 30 hours wages for that action, but it is an action and requirement of me as a public servant, and one which i'm proud to be.
thanks for your patience and support, keep yourself and yours safe.
if you require more inofmation on this subject or fire safety advice, please visit your fire station. although on strike they will be more than pleased to help you... thats what we do.
regards, steve.
aztec
Active member
Re: New idea- no public services
i wasn't going to reply, i realise that my position could be called biased and i accept that. by replying i realise that i may put over thoughts that are mine so please don't take things that i say as policy statements, of the fire service of the fire brigages union.
i'm not going to argue, as i feel let down by elements within the campaign for fair pay for fire and rescue service personnel. but please make sure that arguments put forward are valid and backed up by facts that can be ratiied by both parties.
the 79 yr old guy who died in burnley; i never knew him. i probably would have not ever met him, his life would not have impacted on mine. i may have not met his family, nor may never meet his family. so please explain to me why i feel so bad about this, in my opinion if there was a wholetime crew on duty the appliance should have been there withing the home office recomended time of five mins, this i understand was not the case. the gent dies in hospital later.
in my opinion this guy didn't need to die, but he did due to poor fire cover, caused by the duty crew being on strike. the reasons for the strike need to be understood, do not believe it is only about money. if the gov't implements the baine report that initiated this strike, then fire cover will be reduced, if you dont believe me, then download and read the report. I for one will fight to resist this reduction/modernisation of your fire service. not because i'm militant, not because i'm greedy, or have extravagant lifestyle. but because i genuinely believe that the support we as a service provide to our public is worth fighting for.
i've had to deal with fire deaths and accidentdeaths, it part and parcel of my job, it is what is required. i don't need a pat on the back. i and others like me work hard and one day hope to be " in the right place at the right time to make a difference" all we ask is for the public that we serve to allow us the mechanism to carry out our duties. one of these requirements is fair pay, forget about 40% banded around by some inflamatory elements in the press, no one believes that anyone will get a 40% increase in their wages... deserved or not.
the fact exists that it was the labour wages bill, that decided our pay claim of £30K for qualified firefighters, as it was the same bill that decided on 42% for polititions. the baine report was (in my opinion) designed to push us over the edge and take action. an action that was taken with a lot of soul searching and in recent hours, a heavy heart.
please take all the information available and form an honest opinion, not just jump on the bandwagon of shouting down a proffesional team of dedicated people, working within an understaffed and underfunded entity. that is there wholy to serve the public at times when they need it most.
as a footnote, i was on duty last night, on strike, on station, for a potential terrorist incedent. i will be docked 30 hours wages for that action, but it is an action and requirement of me as a public servant, and one which i'm proud to be.
thanks for your patience and support, keep yourself and yours safe.
if you require more inofmation on this subject or fire safety advice, please visit your fire station. although on strike they will be more than pleased to help you... thats what we do.
regards, steve.
i wasn't going to reply, i realise that my position could be called biased and i accept that. by replying i realise that i may put over thoughts that are mine so please don't take things that i say as policy statements, of the fire service of the fire brigages union.
i'm not going to argue, as i feel let down by elements within the campaign for fair pay for fire and rescue service personnel. but please make sure that arguments put forward are valid and backed up by facts that can be ratiied by both parties.
the 79 yr old guy who died in burnley; i never knew him. i probably would have not ever met him, his life would not have impacted on mine. i may have not met his family, nor may never meet his family. so please explain to me why i feel so bad about this, in my opinion if there was a wholetime crew on duty the appliance should have been there withing the home office recomended time of five mins, this i understand was not the case. the gent dies in hospital later.
in my opinion this guy didn't need to die, but he did due to poor fire cover, caused by the duty crew being on strike. the reasons for the strike need to be understood, do not believe it is only about money. if the gov't implements the baine report that initiated this strike, then fire cover will be reduced, if you dont believe me, then download and read the report. I for one will fight to resist this reduction/modernisation of your fire service. not because i'm militant, not because i'm greedy, or have extravagant lifestyle. but because i genuinely believe that the support we as a service provide to our public is worth fighting for.
i've had to deal with fire deaths and accidentdeaths, it part and parcel of my job, it is what is required. i don't need a pat on the back. i and others like me work hard and one day hope to be " in the right place at the right time to make a difference" all we ask is for the public that we serve to allow us the mechanism to carry out our duties. one of these requirements is fair pay, forget about 40% banded around by some inflamatory elements in the press, no one believes that anyone will get a 40% increase in their wages... deserved or not.
the fact exists that it was the labour wages bill, that decided our pay claim of £30K for qualified firefighters, as it was the same bill that decided on 42% for polititions. the baine report was (in my opinion) designed to push us over the edge and take action. an action that was taken with a lot of soul searching and in recent hours, a heavy heart.
please take all the information available and form an honest opinion, not just jump on the bandwagon of shouting down a proffesional team of dedicated people, working within an understaffed and underfunded entity. that is there wholy to serve the public at times when they need it most.
as a footnote, i was on duty last night, on strike, on station, for a potential terrorist incedent. i will be docked 30 hours wages for that action, but it is an action and requirement of me as a public servant, and one which i'm proud to be.
thanks for your patience and support, keep yourself and yours safe.
if you require more inofmation on this subject or fire safety advice, please visit your fire station. although on strike they will be more than pleased to help you... thats what we do.
regards, steve.
jimi
Well-known member
Bastid .. Ah wis gonna say that
nm
nm
claymore
Well-known member
I could have lived with that
until you blew the universities out of the water.
You see - adolf started off with some quite good ideas, built a decent little car - made some nice roads to drive it on, then - just like Mrs Thatcher - he started believing his own publicity and bang - the sho thing just went sour.
Do you want me to call you Adolf or Maggie because as far as I'm concerned your just the same?
Even Bratfut has a Uni - even though in my day it was a Poly and had the national award for the garish scarf.
Now can we have a rethink here?
regards
Claymore
until you blew the universities out of the water.
You see - adolf started off with some quite good ideas, built a decent little car - made some nice roads to drive it on, then - just like Mrs Thatcher - he started believing his own publicity and bang - the sho thing just went sour.
Do you want me to call you Adolf or Maggie because as far as I'm concerned your just the same?
Even Bratfut has a Uni - even though in my day it was a Poly and had the national award for the garish scarf.
Now can we have a rethink here?
regards
Claymore
claymore
Well-known member
Then ye didnae jig quick enuff shun. nm.
.
regards
Claymore
.
regards
Claymore
aztec
Active member
reply from a firefighter.
i wasn't going to reply, i realise that my position could be called biased and i accept that. by replying i realise that i may put over thoughts that are mine so please don't take things that i say as policy statements, of the fire service of the fire brigages union.
i'm not going to argue, as i feel let down by elements within the campaign for fair pay for fire and rescue service personnel. but please make sure that arguments put forward are valid and backed up by facts that can be ratiied by both parties.
the 79 yr old guy who died in burnley; i never knew him. i probably would have not ever met him, his life would not have impacted on mine. i may have not met his family, nor may never meet his family. so please explain to me why i feel so bad about this, in my opinion if there was a wholetime crew on duty the appliance should have been there withing the home office recomended time of five mins, this i understand was not the case. the gent dies in hospital later.
in my opinion this guy didn't need to die, but he did due to poor fire cover, caused by the duty crew being on strike. the reasons for the strike need to be understood, do not believe it is only about money. if the gov't implements the baine report that initiated this strike, then fire cover will be reduced, if you dont believe me, then download and read the report. I for one will fight to resist this reduction/modernisation of your fire service. not because i'm militant, not because i'm greedy, or have extravagant lifestyle. but because i genuinely believe that the support we as a service provide to our public is worth fighting for.
i've had to deal with fire deaths and accidentdeaths, it part and parcel of my job, it is what is required. i don't need a pat on the back. i and others like me work hard and one day hope to be " in the right place at the right time to make a difference" all we ask is for the public that we serve to allow us the mechanism to carry out our duties. one of these requirements is fair pay, forget about 40% banded around by some inflamatory elements in the press, no one believes that anyone will get a 40% increase in their wages... deserved or not.
the fact exists that it was the labour wages bill, that decided our pay claim of £30K for qualified firefighters, as it was the same bill that decided on 42% for polititions. the baine report was (in my opinion) designed to push us over the edge and take action. an action that was taken with a lot of soul searching and in recent hours, a heavy heart.
please take all the information available and form an honest opinion, not just jump on the bandwagon of shouting down a proffesional team of dedicated people, working within an understaffed and underfunded entity. that is there wholy to serve the public at times when they need it most.
as a footnote, i was on duty last night, on strike, on station, for a potential terrorist incedent. i will be docked 30 hours wages for that action, but it is an action and requirement of me as a public servant, and one which i'm proud to be.
thanks for your patience and support, keep yourself and yours safe.
if you require more inofmation on this subject or fire safety advice, please visit your fire station. although on strike they will be more than pleased to help you... thats what we do.
regards, steve.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by aztec on 15/11/2002 12:55 (server time).</FONT></P>
i wasn't going to reply, i realise that my position could be called biased and i accept that. by replying i realise that i may put over thoughts that are mine so please don't take things that i say as policy statements, of the fire service of the fire brigages union.
i'm not going to argue, as i feel let down by elements within the campaign for fair pay for fire and rescue service personnel. but please make sure that arguments put forward are valid and backed up by facts that can be ratiied by both parties.
the 79 yr old guy who died in burnley; i never knew him. i probably would have not ever met him, his life would not have impacted on mine. i may have not met his family, nor may never meet his family. so please explain to me why i feel so bad about this, in my opinion if there was a wholetime crew on duty the appliance should have been there withing the home office recomended time of five mins, this i understand was not the case. the gent dies in hospital later.
in my opinion this guy didn't need to die, but he did due to poor fire cover, caused by the duty crew being on strike. the reasons for the strike need to be understood, do not believe it is only about money. if the gov't implements the baine report that initiated this strike, then fire cover will be reduced, if you dont believe me, then download and read the report. I for one will fight to resist this reduction/modernisation of your fire service. not because i'm militant, not because i'm greedy, or have extravagant lifestyle. but because i genuinely believe that the support we as a service provide to our public is worth fighting for.
i've had to deal with fire deaths and accidentdeaths, it part and parcel of my job, it is what is required. i don't need a pat on the back. i and others like me work hard and one day hope to be " in the right place at the right time to make a difference" all we ask is for the public that we serve to allow us the mechanism to carry out our duties. one of these requirements is fair pay, forget about 40% banded around by some inflamatory elements in the press, no one believes that anyone will get a 40% increase in their wages... deserved or not.
the fact exists that it was the labour wages bill, that decided our pay claim of £30K for qualified firefighters, as it was the same bill that decided on 42% for polititions. the baine report was (in my opinion) designed to push us over the edge and take action. an action that was taken with a lot of soul searching and in recent hours, a heavy heart.
please take all the information available and form an honest opinion, not just jump on the bandwagon of shouting down a proffesional team of dedicated people, working within an understaffed and underfunded entity. that is there wholy to serve the public at times when they need it most.
as a footnote, i was on duty last night, on strike, on station, for a potential terrorist incedent. i will be docked 30 hours wages for that action, but it is an action and requirement of me as a public servant, and one which i'm proud to be.
thanks for your patience and support, keep yourself and yours safe.
if you require more inofmation on this subject or fire safety advice, please visit your fire station. although on strike they will be more than pleased to help you... thats what we do.
regards, steve.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by aztec on 15/11/2002 12:55 (server time).</FONT></P>
jimi
Well-known member
Fascist State
I can see Britain going the same way as :
No effective opposition
No constitutional checks
Press freedom restricted
->
Dictatorship
Hpw long before TonyB gets reelected unopposed for 10 years?
Its a serious issue, possibly not yet, but soon will be, unless an effective opposition developes soon. We're now in a potentially very dangerous political situation where there is no real constitutional check on the executive with the disappearance of any real constitutional significance of both the monarchy and the second chamber.
I can see Britain going the same way as :
No effective opposition
No constitutional checks
Press freedom restricted
->
Dictatorship
Hpw long before TonyB gets reelected unopposed for 10 years?
Its a serious issue, possibly not yet, but soon will be, unless an effective opposition developes soon. We're now in a potentially very dangerous political situation where there is no real constitutional check on the executive with the disappearance of any real constitutional significance of both the monarchy and the second chamber.
claymore
Well-known member
Re: Fascist State
Well - the previous incumbents were around for 17 years without an effective opposition so what goes round comes round?
regards
Claymore
Well - the previous incumbents were around for 17 years without an effective opposition so what goes round comes round?
regards
Claymore
jimi
Well-known member
Re: Fascist State
Ah yes but the second chamber at that point did have more powers than now. With recent events the fiction that Lizzie has any constitutional powers has really just become a complete joke. I do agree thatthe danger did exist in the years of the Tory adminiustration. Although it is difficult to recall, apart from Michael Foot's leadership Labour actually did have a chance of winning elections, they just shot themselves in the foot (sic) with triumphalist speeches,promises to raise taxes, the Falklands.. not necessarily in that order ... but the Tories now? As for the LibDem they're just scared in case they manage to get any real power and have their private lives exposed!
Ah yes but the second chamber at that point did have more powers than now. With recent events the fiction that Lizzie has any constitutional powers has really just become a complete joke. I do agree thatthe danger did exist in the years of the Tory adminiustration. Although it is difficult to recall, apart from Michael Foot's leadership Labour actually did have a chance of winning elections, they just shot themselves in the foot (sic) with triumphalist speeches,promises to raise taxes, the Falklands.. not necessarily in that order ... but the Tories now? As for the LibDem they're just scared in case they manage to get any real power and have their private lives exposed!
aztec
Active member
Re: fireman, insulting + link
hi colin, said i wasn't gonna post no more??
duty shift system for operational wholtime crews.
two days start 0900 finish 1800 = 18 hours
1st ("day off") night shift starts at 1800 ends 0900 (then "day off" iv'e already worked 9 hours)
2nd night start 1800 finish 0900. then whoopee another "day off" again already worked 9 hours of that day.
so in total two 15 hour nights, added to days = 48 hours. we work an 8 day cycle or tour, so that we can keep crews on station.
asks the police how many hours they do? (not having a go at police either) and how much their hourly rat is.
and apparently we only sleep all night as theres no fires occurr at night.. anopther point in the baine report, suggesting moving crews away from populated ares at night, and reducing the number of available appliances.
go talk to your local fire fighters when they come off their duty shift in the morning, but please allow fror them to be a bit grumpy, they've probably been working most of the night.
and yes there are exceptions, as i'm not stupid enough to pretend otherwise. but on balance it ain't all roses. put your hand on your heart and promise all these nice people that every hour you are at work you are 100% productive.
and forget the 40% you are no fool, you cannot believe that we think we are going to get 40%... or do you? i bloody don't but then i'm realistic about my job.
cheers, steve.
hi colin, said i wasn't gonna post no more??
duty shift system for operational wholtime crews.
two days start 0900 finish 1800 = 18 hours
1st ("day off") night shift starts at 1800 ends 0900 (then "day off" iv'e already worked 9 hours)
2nd night start 1800 finish 0900. then whoopee another "day off" again already worked 9 hours of that day.
so in total two 15 hour nights, added to days = 48 hours. we work an 8 day cycle or tour, so that we can keep crews on station.
asks the police how many hours they do? (not having a go at police either) and how much their hourly rat is.
and apparently we only sleep all night as theres no fires occurr at night.. anopther point in the baine report, suggesting moving crews away from populated ares at night, and reducing the number of available appliances.
go talk to your local fire fighters when they come off their duty shift in the morning, but please allow fror them to be a bit grumpy, they've probably been working most of the night.
and yes there are exceptions, as i'm not stupid enough to pretend otherwise. but on balance it ain't all roses. put your hand on your heart and promise all these nice people that every hour you are at work you are 100% productive.
and forget the 40% you are no fool, you cannot believe that we think we are going to get 40%... or do you? i bloody don't but then i'm realistic about my job.
cheers, steve.
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Re: Fascist State
Granted that the precious St Margaret had little parliamentary opposition (except from her own party), but St John the Major could barely take a pee without invoking a 3-line whip. But, more important than parliamentary opposition was that provided on the street (poll tax) and in the press.
If the blessed Tony Bleugh carries on the way he is, then I reckon we'll see a lot more direct action, civil disobedience and some significant single-issue campaigns agin him and his bunch of yes-persons. Oh yes, and the resuscitated unions are sharpening their claws and displaying little respect for 'their' government.
Granted that the precious St Margaret had little parliamentary opposition (except from her own party), but St John the Major could barely take a pee without invoking a 3-line whip. But, more important than parliamentary opposition was that provided on the street (poll tax) and in the press.
If the blessed Tony Bleugh carries on the way he is, then I reckon we'll see a lot more direct action, civil disobedience and some significant single-issue campaigns agin him and his bunch of yes-persons. Oh yes, and the resuscitated unions are sharpening their claws and displaying little respect for 'their' government.
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
A couple of questions, Aztec
The 40% being asked doesn't come from 'inflammatory press' - it comes from FBU.
If you don't believe you are going to get 40%, then why the **** ask for it?
It just makes the f/fs look greedy beyond belief, and makes the rest of us, (who'd bite our bosses' hands off if they offered us 11% over 2 years) think you don't live in the real world. Don't forget, our taxes and rates are going to have to pay for your increase.
And then, do you acknowledge that you've got far more job security, better pension provisions and an earlier retirement age than 99% of non-public employees? And if so, why aren't you taking that into account in coming up with a wage claim?
Lastly, don't the bulk of the union feel they are being led somewhere they don't really want to go by the political agenda of the union's leadership? It could be cogently argued that settlement of the last f/f's strike is what ushered in 17 years of Tory government. Your (in)action this time, and the copycatting which other unions will then initiate, could be the one thing which brings the Tory party back from the edge of the grave.
The 40% being asked doesn't come from 'inflammatory press' - it comes from FBU.
If you don't believe you are going to get 40%, then why the **** ask for it?
It just makes the f/fs look greedy beyond belief, and makes the rest of us, (who'd bite our bosses' hands off if they offered us 11% over 2 years) think you don't live in the real world. Don't forget, our taxes and rates are going to have to pay for your increase.
And then, do you acknowledge that you've got far more job security, better pension provisions and an earlier retirement age than 99% of non-public employees? And if so, why aren't you taking that into account in coming up with a wage claim?
Lastly, don't the bulk of the union feel they are being led somewhere they don't really want to go by the political agenda of the union's leadership? It could be cogently argued that settlement of the last f/f's strike is what ushered in 17 years of Tory government. Your (in)action this time, and the copycatting which other unions will then initiate, could be the one thing which brings the Tory party back from the edge of the grave.
jimi
Well-known member
Re: Fascist State
Ken, I think that we're saying the same thing! ie There is no real constitutional check on the excutive when there is a substantial majority and in the absence of an effective political opposition then the only real opposition is by Rupert Murdoch and his ilk and failing that civil disobedience. Is this really a balanced democracy?
Ken, I think that we're saying the same thing! ie There is no real constitutional check on the excutive when there is a substantial majority and in the absence of an effective political opposition then the only real opposition is by Rupert Murdoch and his ilk and failing that civil disobedience. Is this really a balanced democracy?
aztec
Active member
Re: A couple of questions, Aztec
i don't refute your comments.
as i understand it, our pay has fallen behind over the past 25 years. we have held on to our conditions of service "job security" so tighly that we have accepted the pay formula eminating from 1977 without any mention of job description. the job we did in '77 is nothing like what we do now. we are not funded for many of the "special service" calls we deal with, but take on that role under the banner of humanitarian services. as you will be aware we could have been in competition with other agencies, for RTA rescue, water rescue, line rescue and attending chemical spillages etc on behalf of the EA. no one would want to go back to standards of 25 yeasr ago, niether with equipment or training and personnel development.
the 40% came from applying the labour wages bill, (gov't pay target) to our service, and £31K was the recognised figure. as was a simmilar figure of 42% increase for the MP's (did they tell you that?)
that's why we were so surprised with the 4% (look how the 11% is made up) brought to us last week, we all thought that we were going to be offered 20-25% (read between the lines here) if so this thread would never be here.
yes we do have job security, no one trains to such a high level, then gets rid of staff like that anymore. and such training, makes this job so unique, the only moves are usually between brigades, where the specialist knowledge is of use.
i'm not in a position to make any judgements on political asperations of individuals. no one does something for nothing, whether that be money or ego, or the satisfaction of achieving something no one else can do.
as i'm informed time will tell, the employers, that is to say the local fire authorities, the authorities formed to administer fire services accross the country, and the ones heavily critisised in the baine report. are turning on the gov't claiming dirty tricks and being made to look like scape goats, wait till monday, read the guardian. and we'll see what happens next.
best wishes, steve.
i don't refute your comments.
as i understand it, our pay has fallen behind over the past 25 years. we have held on to our conditions of service "job security" so tighly that we have accepted the pay formula eminating from 1977 without any mention of job description. the job we did in '77 is nothing like what we do now. we are not funded for many of the "special service" calls we deal with, but take on that role under the banner of humanitarian services. as you will be aware we could have been in competition with other agencies, for RTA rescue, water rescue, line rescue and attending chemical spillages etc on behalf of the EA. no one would want to go back to standards of 25 yeasr ago, niether with equipment or training and personnel development.
the 40% came from applying the labour wages bill, (gov't pay target) to our service, and £31K was the recognised figure. as was a simmilar figure of 42% increase for the MP's (did they tell you that?)
that's why we were so surprised with the 4% (look how the 11% is made up) brought to us last week, we all thought that we were going to be offered 20-25% (read between the lines here) if so this thread would never be here.
yes we do have job security, no one trains to such a high level, then gets rid of staff like that anymore. and such training, makes this job so unique, the only moves are usually between brigades, where the specialist knowledge is of use.
i'm not in a position to make any judgements on political asperations of individuals. no one does something for nothing, whether that be money or ego, or the satisfaction of achieving something no one else can do.
as i'm informed time will tell, the employers, that is to say the local fire authorities, the authorities formed to administer fire services accross the country, and the ones heavily critisised in the baine report. are turning on the gov't claiming dirty tricks and being made to look like scape goats, wait till monday, read the guardian. and we'll see what happens next.
best wishes, steve.
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Re: Fascist State
>Is this really a balanced democracy?<
No, it's elected dictatorship. The only modifying factor is that the dictator doesn't want to become to unpopular because (s)he wants to be re-elected dictator next time around.
>Is this really a balanced democracy?<
No, it's elected dictatorship. The only modifying factor is that the dictator doesn't want to become to unpopular because (s)he wants to be re-elected dictator next time around.
Opinionated
New member
Re: fireman, insulting + link
I read your lucid, non-emotional posting with interest, but feel you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes.
Like most of us, you went into your job with full knowledge of what you were getting in the way of 'reward' for your labour. Unlike you, my job carries no mechanism for regular increases, negotiated in times past by my union. If I, or most people in the private sector were to try to blackmail my employer into paying more, we would get sacked and replaced.
If the danger in your job warrants more than you get, presumably your Mr Gilchrist is doing even more dangerous work than you? It is a new concept that the danger inherent in a job is the deciding factor of the salary.
I think your suggestion that the Bain report is nonindependent is a bit of a slur, and, as far as I can see, unjustified. Trouble is, you don't like the conclusions of the report, so slag it off as biassed.
I have nothing against firefighters, but it seems that your extortionate claims and action to support are greedy and unprincipled and rely on people dying to prove your point.
IMHO, of course.
I read your lucid, non-emotional posting with interest, but feel you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes.
Like most of us, you went into your job with full knowledge of what you were getting in the way of 'reward' for your labour. Unlike you, my job carries no mechanism for regular increases, negotiated in times past by my union. If I, or most people in the private sector were to try to blackmail my employer into paying more, we would get sacked and replaced.
If the danger in your job warrants more than you get, presumably your Mr Gilchrist is doing even more dangerous work than you? It is a new concept that the danger inherent in a job is the deciding factor of the salary.
I think your suggestion that the Bain report is nonindependent is a bit of a slur, and, as far as I can see, unjustified. Trouble is, you don't like the conclusions of the report, so slag it off as biassed.
I have nothing against firefighters, but it seems that your extortionate claims and action to support are greedy and unprincipled and rely on people dying to prove your point.
IMHO, of course.
aztec
Active member
Re: Fork lift wages argument doesn\'t work
just for interest, the fire service does use fork lift trucks, and in my county there's one that should be bolted to the back of a lorry that carries foam concentrate, and additional kit for chemical incedents.
we have a training problem here, that is that we do so much training to keep basic competancies up, there is not enough time to train and keep training competancies up enough to be able to legally use the forklift! therefore, it stays in a garage with tape around it, untill we have enough people and people time to train on it.
don't underestimate the requirements of a forklift truck driver, as if their training and competancies are carried out in line with legal requirements they are likely to be very busy.
and i agree, they don't have to pay 11% of their earnings into a pension scheme. but they may have a company pension payed for by the employer.
just for interest, the fire service does use fork lift trucks, and in my county there's one that should be bolted to the back of a lorry that carries foam concentrate, and additional kit for chemical incedents.
we have a training problem here, that is that we do so much training to keep basic competancies up, there is not enough time to train and keep training competancies up enough to be able to legally use the forklift! therefore, it stays in a garage with tape around it, untill we have enough people and people time to train on it.
don't underestimate the requirements of a forklift truck driver, as if their training and competancies are carried out in line with legal requirements they are likely to be very busy.
and i agree, they don't have to pay 11% of their earnings into a pension scheme. but they may have a company pension payed for by the employer.
JeremyF
New member
Why has no-one answered the original question? Which, to remind you, was not about the rectitude of the strike, but why the soldiers can't use the modern appliences us taxpayers have bought.
<font color=red>Jeremy Flynn/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif
Dawn Chorus</font color=red>
<font color=red>Jeremy Flynn/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif
Dawn Chorus</font color=red>
aztec
Active member
Re: fireman, insulting + link
i can only give the information as it is given to me and agree that from my side the information will always be biassed. that i cannot help. but, the information in the media also frustrates me, as it is generalised and i feel sometimes misleading.
i agree with the sentiment of your reply, and sorry if it sounds that it's not frought with emotion. but, i still try to remain objective. there are two factors here one, with my belief that we should fight for decent public services, and another at a personal level.
over the last two night, my watsh has been "on duty" on the fire station, understanding that we are getting no pay, just in case there is a terrorist incedent, or other catastrophic disaster that cannot be dealt with by the very competant british army crews, and in some areas this has proved to be an aid. a colleages wife, has today asked me if i was enjoying my "rest" today. i don't know how to answer that, do they think that strike means, we don't have to go to work? and naturally whilst i'm there my familly sleeps miles away with the same level of protection as the rest of the country.
i'm not very good at putting over how dissapointed we are with this week. i made an earlier reply at the top of the page, i feel it in some way sums up my feelings and frustrations from a human poit of view.
thanks for your honest opinion.
i can only give the information as it is given to me and agree that from my side the information will always be biassed. that i cannot help. but, the information in the media also frustrates me, as it is generalised and i feel sometimes misleading.
i agree with the sentiment of your reply, and sorry if it sounds that it's not frought with emotion. but, i still try to remain objective. there are two factors here one, with my belief that we should fight for decent public services, and another at a personal level.
over the last two night, my watsh has been "on duty" on the fire station, understanding that we are getting no pay, just in case there is a terrorist incedent, or other catastrophic disaster that cannot be dealt with by the very competant british army crews, and in some areas this has proved to be an aid. a colleages wife, has today asked me if i was enjoying my "rest" today. i don't know how to answer that, do they think that strike means, we don't have to go to work? and naturally whilst i'm there my familly sleeps miles away with the same level of protection as the rest of the country.
i'm not very good at putting over how dissapointed we are with this week. i made an earlier reply at the top of the page, i feel it in some way sums up my feelings and frustrations from a human poit of view.
thanks for your honest opinion.