Hull Stress-Yacht Legs-Liz 30

castaway

New member
Joined
31 Dec 2001
Messages
1,573
Location
Solent
uk.groups.yahoo.com
My 1st thought was about the nice new paint job.. I hope that this was not applied by the previous owner to cover up an existing fault !

What was he like, have you got back to him ? He is probably sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring .....

Good luck, I hope things get sorted out..Nick
 

Kurrawong_Kid

Well-known member
Joined
7 Sep 2001
Messages
1,734
Visit site
What dreadful bad luck! To lift your spirits though we had a Liz 30 for 10 years and she was a superb boat, sailed very well and was a great sea boat. D'ont be too downhearted-this can be repaired although your launch will be delayed somewhat and then you'll get a lot of pleasure.
If I remember correctly the bulheads are quite easily accessible from the interior. Is there any sign of delamination of the bonding on either side of the bulkhead? That would indicate collision or movement, but if bonding is still OK then split may be caused by a "hard spot" where moulding goes over the bulkhead. No gap, as is now the practice, existed between the bulkhead and the skin on the one we owned and you could see the hardspot as you sighted along the hull. Is there one on the other side of the boat? If there are no signs of damage I think this is the most likely cause, but why it should suddenly occur I have no idea.
You may need a surveyor to give you advice on the repair, but it would seem to me IMHO if the bonding is still OK behind the crack then you need to explore how deep the crack has gone and maybe open it out to either side, reglass some overlapping mat and then replace the gel coat. IIRC the moulding is about 1/2" thick or so. Hope this helps.
 

Blueboatman

Well-known member
Joined
10 Jul 2005
Messages
13,717
Visit site
How bizarre.
Obviously it can be repaired, its grp and Liz 30 is no flimsy lightweight.
So what considerable force has been applied locally to form not one but two, opposing cracks?
If they are old old scars then they would actually quickly reappear through a new paint job unless they had been ground out and epoxyfilled before priming and painting.
Has the boat fallen over at some point in its life? I would also expect to see some evidence of lateral movement at the top of the main bulkhead inside the cabin, and mebbe actual fracture in the bulkhead and mebbe some movement or distortion of the shroud attachment points too.
A powerful torch and a whippy wood batten laid along deck and topsides will reveal any deformation.
I would hope that what you have is actually just the old hard spots showing through the new paint where the bulkhead iwas hard fitted to the hull and then over the years the hull has been bumped around enough to produce surface crazing and cracking...
Try asking around the yard, examining old photos and speaking to the 2005 surveyor -he may even have old photos..
Good luck and sorry to hear of the unexpected discovery.
 

harryb1

New member
Joined
4 Dec 2006
Messages
67
Location
Oxford
Visit site
Thanks needed to hear that. Have gone for a Liz 30 based on her excellent reputation, and I have been very much looking forward to sailing her. she only really need general cleaning up and recomisioning-till this!!

There seems to be no damage inside, so yes, it is a hard spot stress crack.

The bulkheads are very visible sighting along the side. I noticed this whilst viewing with the broker, and thats how we both know we didn't miss the crack.

On investigating today by chipping away at the paint the crack look much deeper than I expected.
 

harryb1

New member
Joined
4 Dec 2006
Messages
67
Location
Oxford
Visit site
There is no signs of any of the damage you mention, associated with the boat falling over. Though some of the interior is hard to see. But the main bulkhead looks fine, though it has been refaced sometime in the pass.

The respray was last summer, I'm told, so plenty of time for old cracks to reappear.
 

harryb1

New member
Joined
4 Dec 2006
Messages
67
Location
Oxford
Visit site
I've bought through a broker, so no direct contact with owner. But I did ask questions as to why the re-spray had been done, I was told that the previous paint-work was scruffy do to the boat being kept in a marina and constant wear from fenders had taken it's toll. This seems plausible given that the decks, painted at a similar time to the first re-spray are fairly worn now.

Apparently the owner is very upset and concerned to hear of the damage.
 

castaway

New member
Joined
31 Dec 2001
Messages
1,573
Location
Solent
uk.groups.yahoo.com
If I was you I would get a surveyor to look at it, involve the broker and be prepared to try and recover your money...If this was me and cracks appeared within a day or so of buying a boat that hasn't even been on the water i would be seriously pissed off and wanting satisfaction.

Nick
 

Heckler

Active member
Joined
24 Feb 2003
Messages
15,818
Visit site
Looking at the pic, my guess: Its been repaired before, painted etc, not a good repair, you hit the nail on the head, beaching legs, so presume just keel and legs on the hard, you sleep on board, windy and the pendulum motion cracks the repair again. If it was me i would be seriously jumping up and down with the broker and owner!!
Stu
 

tyce

Well-known member
Joined
6 Jan 2004
Messages
1,554
Location
cumbria
Visit site
IMHO only something along the lines of a grounding would cause that crack.
If its any help i once bought a boat that had cracks in it, the owner did an excellent job of fillering it in and painting over, but the cracks reappeared not long after i bought it.
I did the repair job myself and it was actually quite easy and straight forward when i did a little research into it.
The cracks were more severe than yours.
 

harryb1

New member
Joined
4 Dec 2006
Messages
67
Location
Oxford
Visit site
Thanks for all the replies.

Still a mystery, but on chipping away at paint around crack has revealed a deep crack into the laminate, and knowledgeable advice says it looks old. But no sign of any filler.

So an old crack possibly caused by impact?

I hadn't considered grounding. I guess there could be more as yet undiscovered filled cracks associated with grounding or impact.

Repair is quite straightforward, and I'm prepared to accept that and get it sorted, but will this be an ongoing problem, with reoccurring cracks?
 

whipper_snapper

New member
Joined
9 Aug 2006
Messages
6,487
Location
Kenya
Visit site
I am not familiar with this boat, but a thought occurs to me. Particularly in view of the fact that you see damage both sides.

Is the bulkhead inside faced with ply that might have been fitted or moved by an amateur ? Or some other kind of fitting ? If it has been badly fitted and buts up hard against the skin, or worse if it makes firm contact at a few points on either side, you might see this kind of damage. Boats flex all the time and a hard contact can concentrate stresses and do exactly this kind of damage. That is why all such interior joinery should clear the skin of the boat, there is usually a gap of a few mm filled with foam or sealant.
 

Phideaux

New member
Joined
2 May 2009
Messages
594
Location
East Sussex
Visit site
Harry,

What was the outcome of all this?

I ask as I'm starting down the long road of looking for and then buying a boat, with the E30 on the short list and I'd quite like to get as much knowledge as possible of the things to look out for, and what the ramifications might be.
 

Barry M

New member
Joined
29 Jul 2013
Messages
2
Visit site
Hi I have an Elizabethan 29ft and had it on legs during the winter in a local Creek. Two years running it has suffered horizontal stress cracks on the starboard side where the bolt hole is. This is due to the same occasion of a gale catching her in March and bouncing the keel on the bottom. I do not understand why you should have the problem you state if she is on the hard standing. Are the legs made strong enough to contain her.? She should not wobble about as the weight is taken by the keel. I have to get some more custom made legs for mine does any one know of any going?? I would prefer the aluminium telescopics if anyone has any for sale.

Barry M
 

savageseadog

Well-known member
Joined
19 Jun 2005
Messages
23,300
Visit site
I've seen a cradle leg go right through the side of a yacht in storm force winds. I don't know the the Elizabethan's but I assume they are fairly heavily constructed GRP from the 1970's? One thing to consider is that the hull may have been peeled for osmosis and left thin? Other than that she's had a knock from a crane or another boat, I'd have a really good ask around and look round the rest of the boat for other damage.
 

Barry M

New member
Joined
29 Jul 2013
Messages
2
Visit site
Barry M

Still looking for proprietory brand of legs i.e. telescopic or otherwise for my Liz 29. Anyone got for sale ?? Please call on 07775 660124
 

Tranona

Well-known member
Joined
10 Nov 2007
Messages
41,051
Visit site
Still looking for proprietory brand of legs i.e. telescopic or otherwise for my Liz 29. Anyone got for sale ?? Please call on 07775 660124

Available new from Yachtlegs. Chances of finding a pair secondhand pretty remote as not the sort of thing people sell separate from the boat.
 
Top