Hull Stress-Yacht Legs-Liz 30

harryb1

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I took ownership of my new (old boat) at the weekend, an Elizabethan 30. After a couple of days work and generally getting her ready for her lift in scheduled for today I noticed a largish vertical crack had appeared running 8" from below the waterline to just above the boot top, exactly on the forward bulkhead.

The boat is newly painted, and was spotless. I had spent quite a time looking her over, when having a final viewing a week before- I can definitely say there was no crack.

There are no impact/contact marks of any kind near the crack (or anywhere)
On investigating the other side, there is a faint but otherwise identical version of the crack. And also some faint stress looking crazing in the paint just below the toe rail.

It seems clear that the boat has flexed around the bulkhead.

But I can't quite work out why.

My theory has something to do with the fact she is laid up on Yacht Legs. (not something I would choose to do)
She has no support on the bulkheads other than the keel. Monday night I stayed on the boat, and it was fairly windy- she wobbled considerably in the gusts.

But she has sat here for many months I'm told (and many months since she was painted/anti-fouled) through worse weather.

Could the combination of my being aboard, the wind and the fact that the legs support the boat amidships cause the hull to flex enough around the bulkhead to crack it?

Other than this I am at a loss as how to explain it, and why the problems has arisen two days after completing on the deal.

I would rather it was a clear impact, at least it would be a one off problem.

Any experience on whether using legs causes these sort of stress crack, or issues of Elizabethan 30's suffering from stress cracks around the bulkhead would be welcome.
 

duncanmack

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Have you asked the Elizabethan Owners Association?

Eoa - click here

Unlikely that legs would cause this, unless "fitted" by a complete numpty. The hulls are immensely strong. Badly slung for lift out?

Sorry to hear of the problem. Hope you get some answers. Did you get her surveyed?
 

Clyde_Wanderer

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Has the mast been up all this time.
Has there been a support chock under the forward end, ie forward of the keel?
I have a Hummingbird 30 which the hulls of were moulded in the E30 moulds ans so the hulls are identical to the E30 except for the transom which was modified on the HB 30's
I would reckon that the HB hulls were not layed up as thick or strong as the E's, but I definatly wouldent chance storing mine on legs.
It is a right scunner finding something like this after a deal is done.
Sorry to hear it.
Hope you get it sorted out.
C_W
 

Jobs_a_ good_ un

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Here is the crack

[image]
Crack.jpg
[/image]
 

harryb1

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I will check the EOA-was going to join anyway.

Thought I might get a quicker response here.

Legs look to be well fitted with large backing plates.

Unfortunately I didn't have surveyed due to seeing her last excellent survey from 2005. Maybe a mistake- but I'm told unless there was damage to the lay up that you could hear through sounding, with no visible cracks, a surveyer wouldn't have been able to spot this.

I had wondered if the slings had been put in the wrong place, butshe was lifted a long time ago, why now?
 

Seanick

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My thoughts....was the boat next to the road, ie could a van or something have backed into it. I have seen this more than a few times.
It is unlikely that the boat being on legs could have done this. The legs should not be taking much weight, 99% should be on the keel. Have the keel blocks moved/collapsed?
Boats have been held up by legs for centuries, my own (albeit wooden) 40 footer sat in legs for a few years whilst I built her decks etc. When it was windy she would get blown onto the other leg (a few inches onto shingle), and then flop back again.
The boat/pads should be strong enough for that.
I feel that this damage has obviously highlighted a weakness that may have come to light on a long windward passage?

Any signs on the inside??

/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 

doug748

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The theory with yacht legs is that they only steady the boat and take very little loading, the weight of the boat being taken on the keel, as it is with a cradle. I find it difficult to see how this would be caused in such a way.
I have a very similar boat and have laid her up for 15 years using legs, without any problems.
What bloody rotten luck.
You say the boat has been newly painted in the last ownership? Again it is hard to believe that this has happened overnight and that they knew nothing about it.
 

harryb1

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Yes unfortunately the mast has been up. With sails on too! I had been concerned about that.

She had been chocked under the bow and stern. These and the wedges under the legs had stayed solid throughout the winds over the weekend,
 

harryb1

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It seems to be true that the legs are only steading her most of the time. The side supports on them are loose. i.e. only lightly in contact with the hull.

One theory that has arisen whilst discussing this, is that in a gust more weight could suddenly be transfered to this support, thus pushing in midships and bending the hull out towards the bow/stern. The forward bulkhead being a hard point roughly midway between leg/bow is then where the stress cracks occur.

Does this sound plausible?
 

Seanick

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Any impact on the bow roller.....?
How do the yard move the boat?
Travel hoist, Knipstra, or in a 3 prong cradle? Have a look round the yard, talk to others who have been there a few years, see if they know some history of the boat you don't, or the reputation of the yard boat movers....
 

Chrissie

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Very nasty crack, I feel for you. I would second the sugestion that you scrape back the paint and look for signs of filler from a repair. Are you able to see the area on the inside? and try and judge how thick the layup is?
 

harryb1

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The boat is in a position where something moving in the yard could back in to it, but I have looked very hard for signs of contact, For once I would like this to be the answer, but there is nothing to suggest anything has touch it.

There is no sign of anything unusual, although it is flow coated and hard to see, two people with knowledge of grp have sounded round the area for damage to the grp.
 

absit_omen

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[ QUOTE ]
On investigating the other side, there is a faint but otherwise identical version of the crack.[ QUOTE ]


Don't know if others will agree but this indicates to me that the original impact was on the OTHER side.

The resultant crack being the transfer of energy via the bulkhead.

Not very helpful but just a point. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 

doug748

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The theory that a gust has put an unfair loading on a leg seems very unlikely to me. The loadings on the top of the leg are tiny, with the boat in the vertical. If a massive force were applied I would expect to see damage adjacent to the leg or its fixings.
As other have said, perhaps you should strip back the paint finish, recording it with photographs as you go.
.....PS, You mention side supports. If you have telscopic metal legs I can confirm that these are usually fairly loose. I often remove mine in order to do the boot top.
 

harryb1

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Interesting.

This had occurred to me, As since a week ago, when I can definitely say there was no crack, a small sports boat on a trailer had been parked very close to the port side-where the faint crack is. So I checked for signs of contact- no marks, not even anti-foul on the other boat.
 

vyv_cox

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Sorry to hear of your problem. I would be very surprised if this was anything to do with Yacht Legs, which I have used extensively. I have over-wintered twice on them and never had any suggestion of a problem. As has been said, the weight of the boat is on the keel, not on the legs, which simply stop the boat from falling over.

See this thread for more information.
 
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