Huge domestic Electric bills .... Solar ??

[Refueler]

Try a new gardener it would be easier and cheaper.

He's invalid and brother of my Accounts Manager.

 

[B27]

The video above is professional installers - setting up a 13.8KW Solar array to power my house etc.

That's the main demand taken care off with town grid still available when solar is not producing sufficient.

My starting this thread was more about the smaller demand down at the river ... which can be sorted with smaller panels and MPPT .. originally I was looking at small wind turbine .. but guy I know installed one and soon added solar !! It didn't match anywhere near approaching sales blurb. If I set up as example 500W of solar for pontoons ... that should cover the boats needs + a bit of music !!
The mobile home (summer version) can be sorted with another setup ... to be decided. The main mobile as seen in the video above is a winter version and has electric supply from the barn. It will benefit from the main solar ..

At UK prices, 500W to do 'boat needs' or similar in a mobile is very cheap to do.
If you've got some roof space which gets winter sun, it's not hard to run basic services, for example someone I know has a 'summer house' at the bottom of his garden, there's lights, hifi and a fridge in there, all running, 12 months a year from a couple of panels acquired secondhand a while back.
Another acquaintance had a lock-up garage remote from his house, a few panels provided lights, alarm and power for a few tools.
That kind of thing is easy.
My house is fairly typical, we are not heavy users of electricity, we use typically 12kWh per day in winter.
To go off grid, we'd need a lot of panels, or a generator.
I reckon 12kW of panels would cover about 2/3 of winter days.
That's still quite a lot to buy, and expensive to install, more so if you don't have much garden.
I live in a conservation area which has implications for planning permission.

I'm taking an interest though, because I have half a plan to buy a house which might need a new roof, at which point it makes sense to add panels at the same time.

But for most of us, the killer energy use is heating which ain't happening with panels, even with a good heat pump.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

At UK prices, 500W to do 'boat needs' or similar in a mobile is very cheap to do.
If you've got some roof space which gets winter sun, it's not hard to run basic services, for example someone I know has a 'summer house' at the bottom of his garden, there's lights, hifi and a fridge in there, all running, 12 months a year from a couple of panels acquired secondhand a while back.
Another acquaintance had a lock-up garage remote from his house, a few panels provided lights, alarm and power for a few tools.
That kind of thing is easy.
My house is fairly typical, we are not heavy users of electricity, we use typically 12kWh per day in winter.
To go off grid, we'd need a lot of panels, or a generator.
I reckon 12kW of panels would cover about 2/3 of winter days.
That's still quite a lot to buy, and expensive to install, more so if you don't have much garden.
I live in a conservation area which has implications for planning permission.

I'm taking an interest though, because I have half a plan to buy a house which might need a new roof, at which point it makes sense to add panels at the same time.

But for most of us, the killer energy use is heating which ain't happening with panels, even with a good heat pump.

As regards the heating, because it's only required in the winter or when the weather is shite you are right in that PV won't cover it but we run air-conditioning in the summer which is the equivalent 6 units running permanently during the day occasionally another 3 in the guest bedrooms, we isolate them if not in use. All that is covered along with the rest of the house from our 6.1KW panels. The problem comes at night as we have no batteries and I can't see an economical justification for them. We are limited to 6.1KW installation as our supply is single phase had we 3 phase supply at the house perfectly possible then it would be possible to increase the number of panels but then we rapidly run out of good useable roof space.

 

[Refueler]

Pt 2 ... showing the 24 panels mounted ready for connection tomorrow ..

Anyway - talking to the guys about my pontoon idea ... of course they said to go as big as possible !!

 

[Boathook]

A bit higher and frames spaced out a bit you could have a carport ...

 

[ashtead]

I had this recollection that one airport I picked a hire car up from had a flat car park with the cars under a continuous car port roof which looked like it had solar panels -I think it was at Tenerife south where just get the key box number in advance from some rental companies and have zero hassle compared to others like Goldcar.

 

[William_H]

There is one thing clear to me that answers to your problems will be peculiar to your location. (regulation wise especially). You say your suppliers insists on you exporting excess power.
Here in west oz we have exactly the opposite rules and problems. With some 40% of houses having solar PV their problem is one of excess power in sun light hours and they still need to supply other times. So feed back price has dropped to about 20% of normal tarrif. The normal tarrif is much cheaper by half for power taken from grid in day light hours. Batteries for solar systems are becoming more popular in fact I expect government subsidies for buying battery soon.
With cost of armoured cable and instalaltion I would suggest local solar supply to your boats and mobile homes. I am sure it will be same for you that domestic designed solar panels typically 2 metres by 1 metre 40v or more open circuit and probably around 300 watts will be relatively cheap to buy. You might be able to get your domestic PV supplier to supply more panels than needed for your home installation. Around here second hand domestic PV are cheeap at 12 squid but they are not latest design so less power. I don't exp[ect however that s/h will be an option for you.
These large panels require a MPPT controller for 12v or 24v charging. However if you want 240vAC then an inverter can be got with MPPT function. As you will get for your house system. However they have in past been specifically designed to only operate if you have 240vAC from the grid. To syncronise cycles and also to ensure that if power is cut say down the road you are not able to feed 240VAC into the wiring.
But this has changed a little in inverters containing a battery charger probably around 300v DC battery which are able to supply you with 240vAC from battery in case of power failure. So if you had a lithium battery correct type of charger/ inverter you could have a completely off grid system. Not cheap of course as batteries can be expensive.
I suspect some of your power requirements are for room heating and hot water. It is practical to set up the 40v 300w panels in series to feed directly in to a storage type hot water tank. This can work well in that you store the hot water after dark and can use it for room heating. With the option of connecting to the grid if there is not enough sun. All veruy intersting options changing rapidly with time. ol'will

 

[Fr J Hackett]

A lot of supermarkets here in France have covered car parks with solar panels.

 

[Iliade]

If you are heating water with the output, perhaps you could use a pretty standard solar water heater and thereby not annoy the local electricity supplier.

 

[Refueler]

All done today on the house system .... connected, switched on ... WiFi control and reporting app on phone ....

 

[Fr J Hackett]

That's an excellent return on investment.

 

[Beneteau381]

I have 3 medium sized buildings, plus two mobile homes and pontoons .. all using 240v mains ...

My monthly bill is higher than most people pay rent on an apartment !!

I am in process of having 13.8KW Solar Energy system installed to reduce the demand on national grid system ! Should lead to reduced bonuses for Power Bosses !! Its max size system allowed by Latvian rules unless its an industrial premise.

Its got me thinking about setting up small solar stations for my pontoons (and maybe mobiles) .... it would be great if 240v ... but then that would mean large panels / inverters etc. But if 12v is suitable .... mmmmm

I do have solar on the boats - but minimal ... if I could install higher wattage on the pontoons - that would be much better ....

Use a grid tie invertor from the solar.

 

[William_H]

Congratulations Nigel on the installation. I did not realise you were having a battery as well. Good. I note that each panel is rated at 575 watts which is really huge. Compared to my 12 year old 180 watt panels. (8 for 1500 watts) I guess that reflects improvements in efficiency over recent years. Interesting 7.5KWH battery should give you lots of extra power after dark. Compared to a Hyundai EV with 77.4KwH. Those EVs sure need big batteries. Hence there is some move towards an arrangement where you connect your EV into domestic PV system to give battery back up for house. Great provided you don't come out in the morning to flat battery in EV cos you used the power over night. (The huge battery in the car should easily supply house over night)
I presume your system will provide power in a grid power failure. ol'will

 

[Refueler]

Just so people can get an idea of the 'garden' and the cabling required if I did not go for stand alone solar or at least addition ...

Like everything - if you put in extended electrics - you can look to increased bills !! And with my monthly being literally laready more than many people pay rent .. its something I am acutely aware of.

The battery showed 3 bars yesterday evening as sun went below horizon ... this morning - shows 2 bars ... so it did not use as much as expected from the batterys during the non-solar period.

 

[lustyd]

Overnight use ought to be low, many people only use power at night because they’re trained to by tariffs. Washing machines and dishwashers should be run around midday in a solar house ideally. TVs and lighting are very low power these days.
As for using a car battery, the industry is developing algorithms (AI/ML) to understand your car use and ensure there’s enough for your journeys. There will be an override if you need it fully charged. This will integrate with home power and smart meters to reduce cost and emissions overall. With the right provider they will sometimes pay you to take power from the grid.

 

[William_H]

Hello Nigel. I always enjoy your photography. Your world is so different to mine with my 927 square metres so no room for stuff. I should be envious but for one factor. Latitude at 32s weather is a lot different. Busy day tomorrow as boat goes back in to water after a/f paint and temporary raise mast to adjust stay tension. The hook on to car and off to the club. ol'will

 

[Refueler]

Hello Nigel. I always enjoy your photography. Your world is so different to mine with my 927 square metres so no room for stuff. I should be envious but for one factor. Latitude at 32s weather is a lot different. Busy day tomorrow as boat goes back in to water after a/f paint and temporary raise mast to adjust stay tension. The hook on to car and off to the club. ol'will

Tks for support ... I look upon forums as conversation as well as info ..

 

[Refueler]

Had a hard weekend - sailed across Baltic in tail end of storm ... wet - cold - totally knackered !! Waves up to 4m 50 deg off port bow !

Anyway - late today I looked at my mobile app ..... low sun but clear ... solar = 5.6KWh ... Battery is full charged ... House using 3.14KWh ... exporting TO Town Grid = 2.5KWh .... not so bad.
Even when cloudy - system is keeping up with demand.

Now to think about designing up the system to power the pontoons etc.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Today cold with some sun but also cloud our 6.1KW array produced 29.6KWh so still exporting but had the aircon on on heating using 3 units so since 12 midnight we have used 22.2KWh ( wife also had swimming pool pump on of 6 hours.