How far in a small boat

[Daydream believer]

I often see on the forum novices asking advice on what small cruiser to buy as a starter. But if one is going to buy such a boat one might expect to be able to actually go somewhere with it apart from out of the creek & back. At least I assume that they would after the first few sails. Do they want to just sail in circles all the time.

On another thread someone advised a novice with dinghy sailing experience, plus Day skipper ticket, to look for a Leisure 17 as a first boat & I really wondered if that was sensible advice or not.

Just out of interest can forumites tell me how far one can sensibly expect to cruise in, say, a 6/7 hour day, in a leisure 17 or similar small boat. Not accounting for tide , which may be in one's favour, or not, as the case may be. ( don't forget they have to sail home tomorrow!)

Surely the novice will eventually want to go somewhere & will not want to have to sell the boat & get another to do it.

So how far do those fairly new to sailing actually go in , say , the first 2 years & how long before the first 15 mile trip - if ever? Is 15 miles from home a typical first major cruise?( yes I know it depends on where they are based, but let's say there are options) How big will the boat need to be for husband & wife &, say, one child to actually achieve such a cruise? How long did it take? What sort of boat was needed to do it?

I would expect that information might be of interest to the novice when choosing their first boat.

 

[scruff]

You could go quite far in a Leisure 17, ones been transatlantic before....

https://www.leisureowners.org.uk/leisure-17-17sl/

Whether you would want to is quite another thing.

As for your question though, I know of quite a few folk who only have interest to pop out for 2/3 hours of a sunny afternoon with perhaps one, at most over nighter a season. For that purpose a wee boat is perfect.

 

[[70521]]

Ultimately it is up to the skipper/crew. 15 miles would not get me very far when I had my first boat, just past the mouth of the river and out a bit. A usual day sail was 25 miles, 12 ish out and 12 ish back.

 

[{151760}]

The "hull speed" of a leisure 17 is about 5 knots, so 4 knots is a realistic target in ideal conditions. 30 miles is a realistic target for a long day. A channel crossing would take 15-20 hours. Adverse conditions would slow the boat considerably. It would then depend on the crews fitness and tolerance of discomfort.
Shane Acton sailed 'Shrimpy', an 18-footer, round the world.
For a novice, sailing around the Solent is a very good way to gain experience, with numerous places within a four- to six- hour sail. Chichester or Poole harbours are good for absolute beginners, or for bad weather.
I would have thought that a couple plus one small child could have a very good fortnight in, say, a 21-foot Corribee or something similar, or a weekend in a smaller boat. That was certainly the case 20 or 30 years ago. Crossing the channel in a 17-footer was rare, but not unknown. 20-footers in all sorts of places was unusual but far from unknown.

 

[Hydrozoan]

Doesn’t a lot depend on where you are sailing? IIRC the late Charles Stock (e.g. in `Sailing Just for Fun`) argued that the Thames Estuary / South East corner had very particular advantages for the small boat sailor, and he certainly racked up the miles in a 17 footer with no engine – though typically on his own.

 

[jwilson]

When I had first a 17 ft centreboarder and then a 18 ft Caprice I took both from upper Bristol Channel out to Lundy, N Devon/Cornish coast and up into the Irish Sea. I had long holidays in those days.....

 

[Praxinoscope]

A Leisure 17 was our first ‘cruiser’ sailing out of Christchurch, we went as far West as Torquay and crossed the channel to Cherbourg several times. 4 kts would be a realistic average for the L17, it was a good little boat, solidly built and sailed well, of course it’s a bit cramped, but still a good first boat.

 

[Tranona]

Doesn’t a lot depend on where you are sailing? IIRC the late Charles Stock (e.g. in `Sailing Just of Fun`) argued that the Thames Estuary / South East corner had very particular advantages for the small boat sailor, and he certainly racked up the miles in a 17 footer with no engine – though typically on his own.

The current owner of Shoal Waters is doing the same thing and writes up his passages regularly in PBO.

If you like camping in a mobile tent then there are endless possibilities in that area or the Solent/Chichester/Poole.

 

[RupertW]

In some small slow boats that my father owned we moved up from short sails in Chichester harbour through longer often overnight sails if the weather was no more than Force 4. All the fun of a bigger boat doing trips but covering far shorter distances hence a move up to a faster 24 footer which I eventually took over and sailed from the Solent to South Brittany (Les Sables d'Olonne was the furthest) and then on upwards through sizes to get extra range and eventually comfort.

So my first overnight sail in a slow wooden triple keeler was the mighty passage from Mill Rythe in Chichester Harbour at dusk to Bembridge at dawn via all the places that the tide will take you if it runs faster than you can sail.

 

[steve yates]

I was that person, I bought a bradwell 18 2.5 years ago. My first trip was out of maryport harbour and back to make sure I could steer it and get the sails up.
My next one was a 3 day trip across the Solway Firth, from Maryport to Scotland, about 15 miles in September, in the biggest spring tides of the year, to anchor off Hestan Island, as it got dark, my first experience of anchoring. Next day up the Urr estuary to Kippford, to learn about drying channels, then back the next day to Maryport. 40 miles all told. Was a great learning experience. Did the trip again in October, varying the route, both of these were single handed. Did one more crossing in February with a pal, spending a night in kippford and a night dried out on the mud in a little bay. Baltic but beautiful.

I had thoughts about day skipper etc but after that decided to not bother and go for a big cruise. In the spring I set off, aim being to see how far north I could get by summers end then trailer her home. I crossed to ramsey on the isle of man, 40+ miles, on my first night crossing. round man and across to Ireland, up the Irish coast and round fairhead to Rathlin, over the sea to Islay and up the inner hebrides, then round ardnamurchan and all the way up to Kinlochbervie. I was heading round cape wrath for the orkneys then, into september now, but the wind said otherwise, so I crossed to Stornoway in the outer isles. That was her longest crossing, 53 miles and took me 13 hours. After that, I headed back across the Minch and down the coast and got as far as Stranraer by November where her rudder got bent rounding corsewell point in big confused seas. Took me till march before I got it repaired and then round the mull of galloway she came and back to maryport, took 5 days. Almost all of it, over a 1000 miles, was singlehanded.

1200 miles in an old 18ft boat, so yes, they can go places and you can have great adventures in them.

But there are other considerations too, that wee boat taught me sooo much. And I dared stuff in her, simply because she was old, cheap and battered.

I could afford to lose her if I sank her. I couldn't do much damage to big expensive boats if I hit them. I wouldn't be worried about denting or scratching her cos she was already scabby.

I remember looking at her when I got back to Maryport, I left Port William at 3am, and got to the lock gate with 5 mins to spare, battering through a f4 over a spring tide...we were both plastered in salt, and knackered And I thought, that's your last cruise wee boat, until you get a bloody good fettling.

I went onto a bigger boat (westerly longbow ketch) but now I'm in Essex, I'm going to bring that wee boat down and sort her out so she can cruise the waters she came from. And she will go long distances

 

[White_Belle]

My wife and I rebuilt a Hurley 18 from a total wreck and then sailed her from the Solent to Plymouth and back in 2016

 

[Hydrozoan]

The current owner of Shoal Waters is doing the same thing and writes up his passages regularly in PBO.

If you like camping in a mobile tent then there are endless possibilities in that area or the Solent/Chichester/Poole.

Indeed – though my point was less to do with inherent boat (dis)comfort and more directed to Stock’s argument that some places had particular characteristics which helped the small boat sailor. I was particularly thinking of his claim that the sandbanks of the Thames help to more quickly quell the coastal sea state after storms.

 

[alant]

I often see on the forum novices asking advice on what small cruiser to buy as a starter. But if one is going to buy such a boat one might expect to be able to actually go somewhere with it apart from out of the creek & back. At least I assume that they would after the first few sails. Do they want to just sail in circles all the time.

On another thread someone advised a novice with dinghy sailing experience, plus Day skipper ticket, to look for a Leisure 17 as a first boat & I really wondered if that was sensible advice or not.

Just out of interest can forumites tell me how far one can sensibly expect to cruise in, say, a 6/7 hour day, in a leisure 17 or similar small boat. Not accounting for tide , which may be in one's favour, or not, as the case may be. ( don't forget they have to sail home tomorrow!)

Surely the novice will eventually want to go somewhere & will not want to have to sell the boat & get another to do it.

So how far do those fairly new to sailing actually go in , say , the first 2 years & how long before the first 15 mile trip - if ever? Is 15 miles from home a typical first major cruise?( yes I know it depends on where they are based, but let's say there are options) How big will the boat need to be for husband & wife &, say, one child to actually achieve such a cruise? How long did it take? What sort of boat was needed to do it?

I would expect that information might be of interest to the novice when choosing their first boat.

Work on 4knts, so possibly 6x4=24Nm, but doubt many would go that far.

 

[Topcat47]

And if you want to average 4 knots, don't sail to windward.......

Seriously, I think your "cruising" in such a small boat will largely depend on your child's tolerance he/she'll reach his/her limits long before you will.

 

[RupertW]

And if you want to average 4 knots, don't sail to windward.......

Seriously, I think your "cruising" in such a small boat will largely depend on your child's tolerance he/she'll reach his/her limits long before you will.

I'd agree with that - with a child involved my entirely unscientific experience from my siblings is that my father took his 5 children sailing in his first season, 3 in the next, and just me after that. Unless a child can get the sheer wonder of being at sea instead of "are we at the beach yet?" then it's difficult. I wonder whether I would have got my life long love of sailing if I hadn't been alone on the boat with Dad at the age of 7 and being asked to steer while he let the mooring go and while he put the sails up.

Some very nerdy part of myself must have kicked in becuase when I had nothing to do once he took back over I had a look at the cabin and decided the cooker and pans were black and filthy and that my lunch would taste horrible so spent the next 2 hours getting it all gleaming and looking around the tidied cabin with great satisfaction. All in a 21 foot wooden Kestrel.

 

[TQA]

Jaguar 22

The Solent to Cherbourg and back. A step to far really but the forecast was excellent and it was a full moon.

Troon to Stornoway and back. Magic trip got me hooked on cruising.

Pula to Albania and back.

 

[LadyInBed]

My first sailboat was a 22ft Swin Ranger.
First summer cruse was Weymouth - Dartmouth
2nd (with AH fitted) Weymouth - Dartmouth - Salcombe
3rd Weymouth - Cherbourg (on RDF)
The furthest I went was down through the French canals to Marseille and the Porquerolles off Hyères.

 

[Daydream believer]

The current owner of Shoal Waters is doing the same thing and writes up his passages regularly in PBO.
.

Yes! perhaps he does but when I took him for 10 days sailing around the Channel Islands (also a subject of a PBO article) he could not stop dreaming of owning a bigger boat. He loves creek sailing because of his love of nature, but that is also part due to other commitments. Take those commitments out of the equation & give him a bigger boat & the articles would almost certainly have a different flavour. I can assure you that he would not be pottering in the creeks of the Thames estuary.

 

[Daydream believer]

Work on 4knts, so possibly 6x4=24Nm, but doubt many would go that far.

That is the point . At Stone sailing club on the River Blackwater we have a number of old boats up to 26 ft. Trying to get the owners to sail as far as Brightlingsea is really difficult. Most of them find it too difficult to sail that far. Some end up turning back, Some can only motor it. Some liken Bradwell Power station at the entrance to the river to the moon-- They will never see the other side. Yet they have been pottering around the river for years, but do not feel their boats, capable, or comfortable enough, for such a sail.
We have had to start "cruises in company" to get some to go & even then some turn back as it is "too far".
As for Felixtowe, one chap bought his boat there & still talks about the "epic" cruise back to Stone. (under engine) He would never dream of attempting a return visit. He used to build & race International Canoes, so knows how to sail.

 

[elton]

Check out young Nathan's epic voyage on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF7aVR3tJLB-1sydIhWtlFA

He was once a prolific poster on these fora, but now seems to have moved on.