HOW DO YOU SEE THE FUTURE OF leasure boating &fuel taxation due to climate change,from sailing

[Alicatt]

I don’t think it has to be one or the other. For a start without the roar of an engine a longer trip might not be so bad. And in the wider market there’s definitely plenty of talk of “midfulness” and escaping from the rush - so those who motorboat today may not welcome the switch but it might appeal to a new market.

Funny that, last weekend my daughter was stressed out working from home and looking after her two small boys.
My wife and I were looking after the middle son's daughter and son and we had promised them a run out on the boat, so we got ready to go when the daughter phoned to ask if we could take her boys of 3, and 5years when we said we were going out and looking after the 4 kids was not an option she decided to come with us with the boys.
an hour and a half into the trip I asked her to take the helm which she jumped at the chance, her first time helming a boat. Boy did I have a job getting the helm back from her

Talking with her mum she showed her health app on her phone that shows her stress levels, it had dropped off the bottom.

 

[Grubble]

A Williams takes 60 litres! Med fuel stations all have petrol.

Quite pricey petrol compared to the supermarket though, but obviously a lot more convenient most of the time - unless it's August in a busy marina when you can face queues for the fuel berth.

 

[Grubble]

I think there will be big advances in the next decade in "sustainable" liquid fuel. Aviation is already doing a lot of work on SAF (sustainable aviation fuel) - F1 is going to sustainable fuel next season (IIRC). I suspect/hope that within a decade these will be widespread and of comparable price to what we currently spend on fossil fuels.

So we can hope our ICEs will be around for a very long time - even if they no longer burn fossil fuels

Some people still use film cameras and take their steam engines out at the weekend - most people just move on to the latest technology because they don't put any value on nostalgia.

 

[ari]

Some people still use film cameras and take their steam engines out at the weekend - most people just move on to the latest technology because they don't put any value on nostalgia.

Correct, but only if that latest technology is actually better.

There were no government subsidies needed to persuade the general public to move from highly polluting horses to latest technology motor cars.

 

[Clash]

Correct, but only if that latest technology is actually better.

There were no government subsidies needed to persuade the general public to move from highly polluting horses to latest technology motor cars.

There also wasn't a powerful lobby pushing for the retention of horses and making up myths about the motor car.

 

[Grubble]

Correct, but only if that latest technology is actually better.

There were no government subsidies needed to persuade the general public to move from highly polluting horses to latest technology motor cars.

Subsidies for the motor industry is nothing new - they've had billions over the years, whether it's British Leyland getting bailouts from Labour or the Japanese car companies being given tax breaks by Thatcher to open UK plants, they've always had hand outs.

Some people will obviously want to cling on to the trip to the petrol station, but everyone else will see it as a quaint throwback to a bygone age.

 

[Seastoke]

It is said the uk give out 1% of the world emissions , so we would be better influence. The bad countries like part of the commonwealth ie India. We are not ready so take the marina car park how many cars are there and how many charging points. It’s a joke

 

[Clash]

It is said the uk give out 1% of the world emissions , so we would be better influence. The bad countries like part of the commonwealth ie India. We are not ready so take the marina car park how many cars are there and how many charging points. It’s a joke

Not sure I get your joke

 

[bedouin]

Some people still use film cameras and take their steam engines out at the weekend - most people just move on to the latest technology because they don't put any value on nostalgia.

Sure - when the "latest technology" is better than the current then it is time to move on - but at the moment electric only is not a feasible technology for many vehicles, from airplanes to cargo ships to motorboats.

I think electric boats are good for pottering up and down the Thames for a couple of hours on a Sunday - but not much else yet.

 

[ari]

Subsidies for the motor industry is nothing new - they've had billions over the years, whether it's British Leyland getting bailouts from Labour or the Japanese car companies being given tax breaks by Thatcher to open UK plants, they've always had hand outs.

Some people will obviously want to cling on to the trip to the petrol station, but everyone else will see it as a quaint throwback to a bygone age.

Tellingly, none of your examples were in order to push people towards new technologies.

It's simply never been needed before as people are naturally keen to adopt technology that benefits them, be it digital photography, mobile phones, streaming music, the Internet or whatever.

 

[Clash]

Tellingly, none of your examples were in order to push people towards new technologies.

It's simply never been needed before as people are naturally keen to adopt technology that benefits them, be it digital photography, mobile phones, streaming music, the Internet or whatever.

The 20th century is littered with examples of new technologies being subsidised by governments. Electricity, telephone and broadband rollouts were all subsidised. Otherwise nobody would have paid for the installation of the infrastructure.

 

[ari]

The 20th century is littered with examples of new technologies being subsidised by governments. Electricity, telephone and broadband rollouts were all subsidised. Otherwise nobody would have paid for the installation of the infrastructure.

Which is happening with the electric car charging structure.

However no one had to be bribed to start using telephones or electricity or broadband...

 

[Portofino]

DfT won’t do anything without running a consultation first, plus an economic assessment. This is what they do. The RYA and BMF will be in constant dialogue with DfT. They will share with us when there is something of substance to feedback.

I wish that process would be followed.

In reality the politics of envy take over .
Or the gov has an agenda and rail roads policy through.
Take VAT on PVT school fees . One yr in many have closed and this had put up wards pressure on unemployment and the state social welfare system. It’s put pressure on the state school system bcz the displaced kids drop into the taxpayers funded educational system.
The real wealthy families have bought , pre introduction there entire kids school fees so avoiding the tax anyhow .

Take inc GGT . Past decade the take was hovering around 14-15Bn pa .Rachels increases have resulted in …
Last 12/12 it dropped to 11 Bn . Bcz of behaviour changes of the players with stuff to sell ,

Now I could go on , but just those two policies had perfectly predictable outcomes. But the Gov had an agenda and ignored the advice or your consultations of the major players of just didn’t read any consultation and filed them in the bin

. Good luck BMF et al

 

[Clash]

I wish that process would be followed.

In reality the politics of envy take over .
Or the gov has an agenda and rail roads policy through.
Take VAT on PVT school fees . One yr in many have closed and this had put up wards pressure on unemployment and the state social welfare system. It’s put pressure on the state school system bcz the displaced kids drop into the taxpayers funded educational system.
The real wealthy families have bought , pre introduction there entire kids school fees so avoiding the tax anyhow .

Take inc GGT . Past decade the take was hovering around 14-15Bn pa .Rachels increases have resulted in …
Last 12/12 it dropped to 11 Bn . Bcz of behaviour changes of the players with stuff to sell ,

Now I could go on , but just those two policies had perfectly predictable outcomes. But the Gov had an agenda and ignored the advice or your consultations of the major players of just didn’t read any consultation and filed them in the bin

. Good luck BMF et al

Just as many private schools have opened as have closed. Same as most years. That's the problem with reading headlines and not the article.

 

[Clash]

Which is happening with the electric car charging structure.

However no one had to be bribed to start using telephones or electricity or broadband...

People were bribed to buy newer cars in 2009 and 2010 through government scrappage schemes. Governments bribing people to change their behaviour is nothing new. There are hundreds of 'bribes' available right now to upgrade and improve central heating boilers, insulation, listed buildings etc.

 

[wonkywinch]

I still don't get the push to install electric emgines in sailing vessels. The way to make something expensive viable is if it gets used a lot. Which the average yacht engine isn't.

Our engine is used to get us in and out of a marina or to a destination when the wind has dropped. Maybe running less than 10% of the time the yacht is moving?

 

[Portofino]

Just as many private schools have opened as have closed. Same as most years. That's the problem with reading headlines and not the article.

Can you verify this ?

Thought so .

 

[Grubble]

Which is happening with the electric car charging structure.

However no one had to be bribed to start using telephones or electricity or broadband...

VAT didn't exist back when telephones and electricity was invented. The EV grants are in effect giving some of the VAT back to the buyer. And as for broadband, the government is still funding (sorry bribing) broadband rollout with billions of pounds of taxpayer subsidies.

Whether you like it or not, the government does routinely subsidise new and not so new industries. By your logic no one would be buying computers if it wasn't for the Welsh Assembly Government giving Newport Wafer Fab £5m of taxpayers money.

Obviously ICE cars will continue on the roads for many years to come kept going by enthusiasts, just like we sometimes see horse and carts, but the majority of people won't see the point in paying more for something so complex, just for the privilege of having to make a trip to the petrol station to fill up.

 

[dunedin]

I still don't get the push to install electric emgines in sailing vessels. The way to make something expensive viable is if it gets used a lot. Which the average yacht engine isn't.

Our engine is used to get us in and out of a marina or to a destination when the wind has dropped. Maybe running less than 10% of the time the yacht is moving?

Yes it is important that any decisions and new rules are based upon an assessment of lifetime impacts, not just “cutting and pasting” the car EV rules. As you say many sailing yacht engines are used for relatively few hours (though you might be amazed if actually check recorded engine hours).
Also range is impoartant, and access to charging. Not easy to get shore power in many of the remote parts of UK, where visitor pontoons are rare and anchoring or moorings the norm - typed in anchor a long way from any harbour, or indeed any roads.

 

[Grubble]

Sure - when the "latest technology" is better than the current then it is time to move on - but at the moment electric only is not a feasible technology for many vehicles, from airplanes to cargo ships to motorboats.

I think electric boats are good for pottering up and down the Thames for a couple of hours on a Sunday - but not much else yet.

This thread is about the future and things like electric cargo ships already exist now:-

Inside The World's First Electric Cargo Ship - Yara Birkeland — Sustainable Ships

As do electric light aircraft:-

Velis Electro - Pipistrel

And even high power electric outboard motors:-

ExploMar - High Power Electric Outboard

The future is inevitably heading our way.