HOW DO YOU SEE THE FUTURE OF leasure boating &fuel taxation due to climate change,from sailing

[westernman]

That wasn't rudeness, it was cynicism. This tactic from big oil isn't new. We've had the hydrogen car and so-called renewable fuels. All delaying tactics to prolong the use of dino juice.

And all these "genuine solutions" are usually "only five years away".

I used to fill up with bio-diesel in the 1990s. Made from rape-seeds.

OK at that time diesel engines were much more agricultural - in particular the diesel engine in my Citroen CX Turbo II. I suspect that particular engine would run on almost anything. Indeed in Hungary around that time I filled it up once when desperate with some "agricultural fuel" as I did not have the paper work to be able to buy proper diesel fuel. That cost me the equivalent of 2 pfennigs (i.e. less than 1 euro centime) per litre which is probably a good indication as to its quality. The engine ran fine.

However, I suspect that your modern common rail turbo charged diesel engine is more finnicky. But there does not seem to be any real issue any more:-
Sustainable Diesel from Rapeseed Oil Esters - ChemistryViews

So not five years away and certainly practical. Also the raw price I believe is about 3 x that of refined diesel (before taxes).

In Munich when I filled up with rape-seed oil, the retail price was about 10% less than supermarket diesel. It was not subject to fuel tax.

 

[Clash]

I used to fill up with bio-diesel in the 1990s. Made from rape-seeds.

OK at that time diesel engines were much more agricultural - in particular the diesel engine in my Citroen CX Turbo II. I suspect that particular engine would run on almost anything. Indeed in Hungary around that time I filled it up once when desperate with some "agricultural fuel" as I did not have the paper work to be able to buy proper diesel fuel. That cost me the equivalent of 2 pfennigs (i.e. less than 1 euro centime) per litre which is probably a good indication as to its quality. The engine ran fine.

However, I suspect that your modern common rail turbo charged diesel engine is more finnicky. But there does not seem to be any real issue any more:-
Sustainable Diesel from Rapeseed Oil Esters - ChemistryViews

So not five years away and certainly practical. Also the raw price I believe is about 3 x that of refined diesel (before taxes).

In Munich when I filled up with rape-seed oil, the retail price was about 10% less than supermarket diesel. It was not subject to fuel tax.

It's totally impractical as a replacement for fossil fuels. There isn't enough landmass available.

 

[westernman]

It's totally impractical as a replacement for fossil fuels. There isn't enough landmass available.

There is well enough for Bouba's gin palace.

 

[Clash]

There is well enough for Bouba's gin palace.

Just about. A bit of bad weather and he's paddling.

 

[boomerangben]

Given that we will still need crude oil for the plastics they use to make electric cars, to pave the roads they run on, the paint for the lines the autonomous vehicles of the future need to navigate, plus the plethora of other products we are hooked on, what are they going to do with all the waste petrol and diesel that comes out of the refinery and no one uses anymore………. I think hydrocarbon fuels are going to be around for a long time

 

[Clash]

Given that we will still need crude oil for the plastics they use to make electric cars, to pave the roads they run on, the paint for the lines the autonomous vehicles of the future need to navigate, plus the plethora of other products we are hooked on, what are they going to do with all the waste petrol and diesel that comes out of the refinery and no one uses anymore………. I think hydrocarbon fuels are going to be around for a long time

All the classic cars and tractors will use it.

 

[ducked]

I could give up boating and holiday abroad spending my boating money on hotels and eating out. Will be a loss to the UK economy from me. Only small in the grand scheme of things but if more did it ?

You'd probably fly too, so perhaps bigger ecofeet than dieselling your holiday away

 

[ducked]

I think there will be big advances in the next decade in "sustainable" liquid fuel. Aviation is already doing a lot of work on SAF (sustainable aviation fuel) - F1 is going to sustainable fuel next season (IIRC). I suspect/hope that within a decade these will be widespread and of comparable price to what we currently spend on fossil fuels.

So we can hope our ICEs will be around for a very long time - even if they no longer burn fossil fuels

Dont think there are really many advances required for sustainable diesel fuel. Its an established technology, but I suppose planes may ensure that there is still a "light" liquid hydrocarbon fuel production and distribution system which the marine leisure sector may be able to tap into, if the road transport system atrophies,

 

[ylop]

However, I suspect that your modern common rail turbo charged diesel engine is more finnicky. But there does not seem to be any real issue any more:-
Sustainable Diesel from Rapeseed Oil Esters - ChemistryViews

Good for CO2 reduction, but not for NOx and particulates. So urban environments at least are likely to persist.

Given that we will still need crude oil for the plastics they use to make electric cars, to pave the roads they run on, the paint for the lines the autonomous vehicles of the future need to navigate, plus the plethora of other products we are hooked on, what are they going to do with all the waste petrol and diesel that comes out of the refinery and no one uses anymore………. I think hydrocarbon fuels are going to be around for a long time

Of course many of those things can be made from non-fossil feedstocks if the economics of being road fuel byproducts is flipped on its head. I don’t expect oil extraction and refining to completely disappear but refineries have been good at turning indescribable fractions into something more valuable and I doubt that will change.

 

[westernman]

Good for CO2 reduction, but not for NOx and particulates. So urban environments at least are likely to persist.

Of course many of those things can be made from non-fossil feedstocks if the economics of being road fuel byproducts is flipped on its head. I don’t expect oil extraction and refining to completely disappear but refineries have been good at turning indescribable fractions into something more valuable and I doubt that will change.

For transport in urban environments the solution is already available. I.e. EVs.

Most pleasure boats are not used in an urban environment but on the sea.

For canal boats, eventually electric would be possible, but that needs charging infrastructure to be built up. As has happened for cars.

 

[rafiki_]

For transport in urban environments the solution is already available. I.e. EVs.

Most pleasure boats are not used in an urban environment but on the sea.

For canal boats, eventually electric would be possible, but that needs charging infrastructure to be built up. As has happened for cars.

Ok for light vehicles but electric doesn’t work for HGV’s. A 44 tonne truck would need 18 tonnes of batteries to give the same energy capacity as a diesel.

 

[westernman]

Ok for light vehicles but electric doesn’t work for HGV’s. A 44 tonne truck would need 18 tonnes of batteries to give the same energy capacity as a diesel.

Electric does work for HGVs. Not yet perfect due to limitations in the charging network, but electric trucks are coming.
Here is an electric IVECO 44 tonne juggernaut.

I believe the batteries weigh 4.5 tons.

 

[rafiki_]

Electric does work for HGVs. Not yet perfect due to limitations in the charging network, but electric trucks are coming.
Here is an electric IVECO 44 tonne juggernaut.

I believe the batteries weigh 4.5 tons.

And what is the range?

 

[westernman]

And what is the range?

More than the maximum permitted driving time between breaks.

 

[Boathook]

More than the maximum permitted driving time between breaks.

If electric trucks become more common, are there enough truck stops with charging points for them ?

 

[Clash]

Electric does work for HGVs. Not yet perfect due to limitations in the charging network, but electric trucks are coming.
Here is an electric IVECO 44 tonne juggernaut.

I believe the batteries weigh 4.5 tons.

Scania have developed an EV truck with a range extender for DHL. 416kWh battery plus a 120kW petrol generator. The range extender will get it to 800km. Intended as a stop-gap until a suitable charging network is rolled out.

It's this kind of development that makes a mockery of the notion that something better will be along and EVs will be supplanted. The investment world wide is massive.

 

[westernman]

If electric trucks become more common, are there enough truck stops with charging points for them ?

It seems that on major routes in Germany, yes.
But I doubt that this is the case in Portugal or Turkey. At the moment......

 

[Seastoke]

I suppose the big question is, how much carbon to make the batteries the electricity to charge and the cost of the unit. The other question is that a lot of lorries are used day and night by different drivers.

 

[westernman]

I suppose the big question is, how much carbon to make the batteries the electricity to charge and the cost of the unit. The other question is that a lot of lorries are used day and night by different drivers.

So are EV taxis.

 

[Seastoke]

It seems that on major routes in Germany, yes.
But I doubt that this is the case in Portugal or Turkey. At the moment......

Ok how many parking spaces does your marina have and how many charge points.