How can I get small yacht insurance that "covers lifting"?

[dunedin]

Doubt it ... yard like most probably asked owmers - do you have insurance .. they answer yes ... end of discussion.

In which case the OP gives the same response - “yes the same as the other boats”
But more likely if it is Council run all boats get asked the same question and all (or none) get asked for sight of some paper work. Having the same as the others launching on the same day would be my strategy.

 

[Mark-1]

In which case the OP gives the same response - “yes the same as the other boats”
But more likely if it is Council run all boats get asked the same question and all (or none) get asked for sight of some paper work. Having the same as the others launching on the same day would be my strategy.

Which is fine if the other boats can point to this elusive cover. If they can't (which is what I found) all you're doing is telling more and more people that you don't have it.

Clearly if the OP needs to provide a document he'll have to find out but if, like me, it's just mentioned and never checked then staying under the radar strikes me as a better plan if the first couple of fellow berth holders can't identify it. Being the individual who spots the Emperor's new clothes might result in being left on the hard.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It depends on how he is going to get the boat lifted and as has been mentioned if other boats are involved but basically it will be down to the crane operators insurance which he needs to get a copy off and give along with his own insurance which will satisfy the council or should. If there are other boats then he needs to talk to them.

 

[Egret]

..

 

[mjcp]

Wreck Removal is standard in most Boat Insurance - even Basic Boat 3rd party has it ...

That might need more clarification: some "basic" policies cover risks afloat, not ashore, I guess the assumption is you can tidy up your own mess ashore?

 

[Mark-1]

That might need more clarification: some "basic" policies cover risks afloat, not ashore, I guess the assumption is you can tidy up your own mess ashore?

"Basic Boat" insurance company covers Wreck Recovery and you can't get more basic than them!

Basic Boat liability insurance-small boat liability insurance-boat insurance

 

[Refueler]

That might need more clarification: some "basic" policies cover risks afloat, not ashore, I guess the assumption is you can tidy up your own mess ashore?

The clause is to cover sinking alongside .. the usual term is Wreck Recovery or Salvage.

With regard to ashore - that is another different matter.

 

[Refueler]

With all respect to the Original Poster and question .. I have a feeling that OP may have inadvertently opened a can of worms ... misunderstood request by 'yard'.

If as a newbie to boating ... just bought boat - then asks yard to lift ... yard would of course ask if boat has insurance. The matter then may have been misunderstood by owner to mean Lift Insurance ... the yard guy would then go along with that ...

In all the years - as I'm sure many others here .... have never been asked for 'Lift Insurance' .. but often asked if boat is insured for general risks. Most yards will not ask to sight the actual policy - as then it can be construed that Yard has now become party to the policy ...

IMHO - my suggestion to OP - is go back to yard and ask to see a copy of the Crane / Lifting systems Insurance - which should be in place. But also have at least 3rd Party own boat cover ready for when asked.

 

[Concerto]

Duncan Marshall, you mention the boat is on a council property, but is the crane council owned or brought in on hire. This can make a huge difference.

 

[ylop]

If damage is due to error on lifting appartus / operator - then they are liable and your Insurance would no doubt have a 'word' with them !!

If you have 3rd party only I’d expect they won’t. You either want a legal insurance policy or a policy that covers you for damage to your own boat if you want them to be interested in your loss. Otherwise they answer is likely to be “you didnt buy the right cover”.

Most yards will not ask to sight the actual policy - as then it can be construed that Yard has now become party to the policy ...

I don’t see how you can become party to a policy by asking to see it. If my boat was damaged by a neighbour who turned out to be uninsured and the yard had done nothing to verify that I think that would expose the yard to more than if their boat was insured but some policy technicality got the insurer off. I’ve been asked for at least the name and policy number in some of the more professionally run places I’ve used. Off the water I deal with major blue chip companies a lot and their legal departments often ask to see employers, professional, product liability certificates - US companies especially. If there was a real risk about becoming liable by doing basic dilligence I think they would be dodging it.

 

[Refueler]

If you have 3rd party only I’d expect they won’t. You either want a legal insurance policy or a policy that covers you for damage to your own boat if you want them to be interested in your loss. Otherwise they answer is likely to be “you didnt buy the right cover”.

[/QUOTE]

Agreed that if only 3rd party cover ... but in that instance I was talking generally ...

I don’t see how you can become party to a policy by asking to see it. If my boat was damaged by a neighbour who turned out to be uninsured and the yard had done nothing to verify that I think that would expose the yard to more than if their boat was insured but some policy technicality got the insurer off. I’ve been asked for at least the name and policy number in some of the more professionally run places I’ve used. Off the water I deal with major blue chip companies a lot and their legal departments often ask to see employers, professional, product liability certificates - US companies especially. If there was a real risk about becoming liable by doing basic dilligence I think they would be dodging it.

It is common that Yards do not ask for copy or sighting of Insurance Docs in UK - what happens in USA - is not UK....

I have various Yards / Marina's comments to me personally as a Surveyor - that they do not ask copies - precisely to distance themselves from the insurance policy conditions.
The two marina's I deal with here in Latvia - they state same as well !

 

[wallacebob]

My old club, “self-help, organised crane twice a year. We all had standard third party insurance. The crane company were asked if their insurance covered any incidents; no, as we did the slinging. They required two banks men at significant extra cost to us to give the club peace of mind. Members still had to help, just to get the job done,
My present marina does the job with their equipment and staff; I stand well back and let them take the responsibilities.

Both places required sight of insurance policy, as part of their “duty of care” to others. I guessed that it was really the club and marina insurers insisting on proof of cover.

 

[Refueler]

Duncan Marshall, you mention the boat is on a council property, but is the crane council owned or brought in on hire. This can make a huge difference.

Why would it make difference ? If the crane / lifter is being used by the Yard - then it would be required to be insured. If not - then surely - a waiver document presented to boat owner to sign accepting that crane is un-insured ?

 

[Tranona]

I don’t see how you can become party to a policy by asking to see it.

That is exactly the advice our club was given when there was an issue about checking insurance. Members are required to "tick the box" as a condition of paying berth fees but not supply a copy of documents. The argument is that it puts the club in a position of confirming insurance exists when it could be cancelled the very next day. The responsibiltity must lie with the owner.

This is all a something of nothing and post#28 (and others) have it right. The owner of the yard, whether council owned or private requires owners of boats using their facilities to insure against third party risks including wreck and environmental damage. Most if not all third party yacht insurance does this for obvious reasons - nobody would buy without it. It is cheap because it is low risk although potentially high cost of individual claim. The yard should have third party cover for all its operations and an owner is entitled to ask for a copy. I think at one time it was a requirement to display a copy of the Certificate in the office. If the operator of the crane or any outside contractor is doing the work the yard will require them to show their insurance. In our club contractors have to sign in and show a valid copy of their insurance.

There is nothing new or different about what the OP is being asked and if he has a standard yacht insurance policy he can do no more in terms of satisfying the yard

 

[Refueler]

That is exactly the advice our club was given when there was an issue about checking insurance. Members are required to "tick the box" as a condition of paying berth fees but not supply a copy of documents. The argument is that it puts the club in a position of confirming insurance exists when it could be cancelled the very next day. The responsibiltity must lie with the owner.

This is all a something of nothing and post#28 (and others) have it right. The owner of the yard, whether council owned or private requires owners of boats using their facilities to insure against third party risks including wreck and environmental damage. Most if not all third party yacht insurance does this for obvious reasons - nobody would buy without it. It is cheap because it is low risk although potentially high cost of individual claim. The yard should have third party cover for all its operations and an owner is entitled to ask for a copy. I think at one time it was a requirement to display a copy of the Certificate in the office. If the operator of the crane or any outside contractor is doing the work the yard will require them to show their insurance. In our club contractors have to sign in and show a valid copy of their insurance.

There is nothing new or different about what the OP is being asked and if he has a standard yacht insurance policy he can do no more in terms of satisfying the eyard

Thank you.

 

[Graham376]

I think at one time it was a requirement to display a copy of the Certificate in the office. If the operator of the crane or any outside contractor is doing the work the yard will require them to show their insurance. In our club contractors have to sign in and show a valid copy of their insurance.

There is nothing new or different about what the OP is being asked and if he has a standard yacht insurance policy he can do no more in terms of satisfying the yard

I think the Employers Liability Certificate has to be displayed where employees can see it but not the Business Liability one.

 

[ylop]

That is exactly the advice our club was given when there was an issue about checking insurance. Members are required to "tick the box" as a condition of paying berth fees but not supply a copy of documents. The argument is that it puts the club in a position of confirming insurance exists when it could be cancelled the very next day. The responsibiltity must lie with the owner.

Yes I’ve seen that advice repeated here and in other places for similar reasons. I’m just questioning if it’s actually based on sound legal advice or it’s an idea that has been repeated as gospel without scrutiny. Clearly the onus is on the vessel owner, and a policy could be cancelled etc. The fact some professionally run marinas do indeed ask for it for long term berthing suggests this advice is not universally recognised.

It’s all irrelevant though - if the yard do ask for it, he’ll need to have whatever they expect to see. I don’t think they’ll buy, “you probably shouldn’t ask for it because then you’d perhaps be liable for any deficiency”. In my experience Council run facilities are likely to be particularly thorough in checks they require - one council slipway I used required not only the boats insurance but the insurance for the car being used to launch it!

That is exactly the advice our club was given when there was an issue about checking insurance. Members are required to "tick the box" as a condition of paying berth fees but not supply a copy of documents. The argument is that it puts the club in a position of confirming insurance exists when it could be cancelled the very next day. The responsibiltity must lie with the owner.

This is all a something of nothing and post#28 (and others) have it right. The owner of the yard, whether council owned or private requires owners of boats using their facilities to insure against third party risks including wreck and environmental damage. Most if not all third party yacht insurance does this for obvious reasons - nobody would buy without it. It is cheap because it is low risk although potentially high cost of individual claim. The yard should have third party cover for all its operations and an owner is entitled to ask for a copy. I think at one time it was a requirement to display a copy of the Certificate in the office. If the operator of the crane or any outside contractor is doing the work the yard will require them to show their insurance.

In our club contractors have to sign in and show a valid copy of their insurance.

So why is that not exposing your club to the same hypothetical risk that the contractors insurance is invalid/cancelled/inadequate but your club officials miss it?

 

[Tranona]

So why is that not exposing your club to the same hypothetical risk that the contractors insurance is invalid/cancelled/inadequate but your club officials miss it?

Because the relationship is different. . Back to the original question. You would expect the the yard, crane, contractors etc working working on customers /members boats to be insured . Not unreasonable to check before allowing them in.

 

[ylop]

Because the relationship is different. .

I’m not sure I see how.

You would expect the the yard, crane, contractors etc working working on customers /members boats to be insured . Not unreasonable to check before allowing them in.

And given it’s policy that customers/members must be insured for third party risks - why is it then not appropriate to check before allowing them in?

After all who is more likely to do harm - a professional well recognised rigging company or a member trying to cut costs and replace his standing rigging himself and drop the mast on a neighbour (to give an example).

 

[Tranona]

I’m not sure I see how.

And given it’s policy that customers/members must be insured for third party risks - why is it then not appropriate to check before allowing them in?

After all who is more likely to do harm - a professional well recognised rigging company or a member trying to cut costs and replace his standing rigging himself and drop the mast on a neighbour (to give an example).

Members are not allowed to do that type of work on their own. That was stopped for insurance reasons and only designated trained members can operate the club derrick for stepping and unstepping masts - insured by the club of course. Other if the mast is too big then cranes are hired usually by the rigging contractor so not unreasonable that the club should see evidence of insurance before carrying out such work on the premises.