Lakesailor
New member
Probably so, but Mr Plod will be less than impressed with that line when he stops you in your Panda towing a Hanse 301.
It's still points on your licence.
It's still points on your licence.
How big a car do I need to tow....
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G
Guest
Guest
Maybe you need my machine then - V70 XC ?? Interesting when it starts flicking drive around the wheels .... locks of course when winter button selected.
Oh yes - I have the 240hp T5 version with upgraded Computer chip .... makes quite a few so-called faster guys look twice when they can't catch it !!!
Was offered a V70 T5R at 290hp ... re-chipped jobbie .... but the brakes hadn't been uprated to compensate for its blistering pace !! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Oh yes - I have the 240hp T5 version with upgraded Computer chip .... makes quite a few so-called faster guys look twice when they can't catch it !!!
Was offered a V70 T5R at 290hp ... re-chipped jobbie .... but the brakes hadn't been uprated to compensate for its blistering pace !! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
aitchw
New member
Smug b*****d! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
PilotWolf
Well-known member
My T5 is unbadged and when I first moved I was living part time here and part time on the mainland so brought a cheap caravan which I towed down from Surrey.
It was (sad) fun to still be able to out accelerate the boy racers whilst towing a caravan!
PW
It was (sad) fun to still be able to out accelerate the boy racers whilst towing a caravan!
PW
dedwards
Member
I'm in a similar position here.. Planning on getting a trailer sailer eventually so am looking at vehicle options now. Obviously the huge 4x4s will do the job easily but I'd rather not own (or rent) one just for the benefit of the 5 metres of slipway every so often.
The manufacturer limits are very confusing as, for example, A ford mondeo is rated at 1800kg while an X-type jag is only 1500kg despite identical chassis' and the X-type having bigger engine and 4 wheel drive.
Is 4 wheel drive essential on the slipway? or is RWD enough?
and can anybody recommend any cars that will not struggle lifting an 1800kg boat/trailer up a slipway? The only one that I can think of is the impreza but thats only rated for about 1500kg...
The manufacturer limits are very confusing as, for example, A ford mondeo is rated at 1800kg while an X-type jag is only 1500kg despite identical chassis' and the X-type having bigger engine and 4 wheel drive.
Is 4 wheel drive essential on the slipway? or is RWD enough?
and can anybody recommend any cars that will not struggle lifting an 1800kg boat/trailer up a slipway? The only one that I can think of is the impreza but thats only rated for about 1500kg...
Lakesailor
New member
[ QUOTE ]
The manufacturer limits are very confusing as, for example, A ford mondeo is rated at 1800kg while an X-type jag is only 1500kg despite identical chassis' and the X-type having bigger engine and 4 wheel drive.
[/ QUOTE ] I think Avocet's comment "For what its worth, I've been told that the towing limits manufacturers quote tend to be as much to do with what they are prepared to give a warranty on the transmission and driveline on as with stability and braking! " probably accounts for that.
The manufacturer limits are very confusing as, for example, A ford mondeo is rated at 1800kg while an X-type jag is only 1500kg despite identical chassis' and the X-type having bigger engine and 4 wheel drive.
[/ QUOTE ] I think Avocet's comment "For what its worth, I've been told that the towing limits manufacturers quote tend to be as much to do with what they are prepared to give a warranty on the transmission and driveline on as with stability and braking! " probably accounts for that.
FullCircle
Well-known member
>> I think Avocet's comment "For what its worth, I've been told that the towing limits manufacturers quote tend to be as much to do with what they are prepared to give a warranty on the transmission and driveline on as with stability and braking! " probably accounts for that. >>
With Ford its an exhaustive series of tests based on driving up and down Gross Glockner pass with a fully laden vehicle & trailer at Gross Vehicle Mass, testing all systems to withstand a quantity of tests for cooling system,brakes, clutches body strength, and not least the ability of the engine to breathe at altitude. Maybe you were looking at the difference between a Petrol and a Turbo Diesel, which is considerable, due to forced air combustion. Also at Cold and Hot Climates, among other tests.
Some manufacturers quote a sea level tow weight at 20 degrees standard temperature, and a note in the manual saying a decrease of capability in the order of 10% per 1000ft altitude could be expected. Toyota used to write a note in their manual that if the temp goes into the red while driving up a hill, Stop!
Of course, warranties are market driven, not component life. Nearly all vehicles are signed off for production 10 years, 150000 miles. They won't give you any more warranty than the market they are in. In America, its quite normal to get 5 years / 100000 miles with your Hyundai.
So nobody has a Euro standard playing field for the punter to compares eggs with pineapples.
Jim
With Ford its an exhaustive series of tests based on driving up and down Gross Glockner pass with a fully laden vehicle & trailer at Gross Vehicle Mass, testing all systems to withstand a quantity of tests for cooling system,brakes, clutches body strength, and not least the ability of the engine to breathe at altitude. Maybe you were looking at the difference between a Petrol and a Turbo Diesel, which is considerable, due to forced air combustion. Also at Cold and Hot Climates, among other tests.
Some manufacturers quote a sea level tow weight at 20 degrees standard temperature, and a note in the manual saying a decrease of capability in the order of 10% per 1000ft altitude could be expected. Toyota used to write a note in their manual that if the temp goes into the red while driving up a hill, Stop!
Of course, warranties are market driven, not component life. Nearly all vehicles are signed off for production 10 years, 150000 miles. They won't give you any more warranty than the market they are in. In America, its quite normal to get 5 years / 100000 miles with your Hyundai.
So nobody has a Euro standard playing field for the punter to compares eggs with pineapples.
Jim
G
Guest
Guest
For cheap notes ....
A dedicated older LR is more than just a tow vehicle of world renown .... it actually despite being uncomfortable is fun to play with ....
You can get tax exempt jobs for less than a grand ..... will tow anything literally - often have a winch fitted, don't need plugs like all those fancy 4x4's to go really up to the ears in muck etc.
With one you will never worry about that slipway etc. Having doen it with 2.8i Capris, and all sorts of other motors - I always went back to a LR .... as they say on the rear window sticker - "The Best 4 x 4 By Far"
A dedicated older LR is more than just a tow vehicle of world renown .... it actually despite being uncomfortable is fun to play with ....
You can get tax exempt jobs for less than a grand ..... will tow anything literally - often have a winch fitted, don't need plugs like all those fancy 4x4's to go really up to the ears in muck etc.
With one you will never worry about that slipway etc. Having doen it with 2.8i Capris, and all sorts of other motors - I always went back to a LR .... as they say on the rear window sticker - "The Best 4 x 4 By Far"
Avocet
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
Probably so, but Mr Plod will be less than impressed with that line when he stops you in your Panda towing a Hanse 301.
It's still points on your licence.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nah! they're all too busy emptying the cash out of their speed cameras these days to worry about people doing anything dangerous! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Seriously though, the legalities of the situation are dealt with on the chassis plate. It would obviously be completely irresponsible of me to suggest towing a 60' Oyster with a Reliant Robin (although they don't rust so I suppose in every other respect, they'd be ideal for launching!)
Probably so, but Mr Plod will be less than impressed with that line when he stops you in your Panda towing a Hanse 301.
It's still points on your licence.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nah! they're all too busy emptying the cash out of their speed cameras these days to worry about people doing anything dangerous! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Seriously though, the legalities of the situation are dealt with on the chassis plate. It would obviously be completely irresponsible of me to suggest towing a 60' Oyster with a Reliant Robin (although they don't rust so I suppose in every other respect, they'd be ideal for launching!)
Avocet
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
I'm in a similar position here.. Planning on getting a trailer sailer eventually so am looking at vehicle options now. Obviously the huge 4x4s will do the job easily but I'd rather not own (or rent) one just for the benefit of the 5 metres of slipway every so often.
The manufacturer limits are very confusing as, for example, A ford mondeo is rated at 1800kg while an X-type jag is only 1500kg despite identical chassis' and the X-type having bigger engine and 4 wheel drive.
Is 4 wheel drive essential on the slipway? or is RWD enough?
and can anybody recommend any cars that will not struggle lifting an 1800kg boat/trailer up a slipway? The only one that I can think of is the impreza but thats only rated for about 1500kg...
[/ QUOTE ]
It's impossible to say without access to the sort of information only the manufacturer would have. I'm with Jimdew on this one. Maybe, for instance, the X-type has the same clutch and with the extra power, they wouldn't want to fry it by allowing the same weight to be towed. Or maybe there is a particular component in the 4 wheel drive setup (a viscous centre diff maybe?) that can't cope with high loads.
As far as the slipway question goes, it really depends on how steep it is and how slippy. The latter can be mitigated to some extent by putting a stout rope between the tow bar and the trailer coupling so that you get the driving wheels on to better terrain. This, however, tends to create other problems (gives the jockey wheel on the trailer a hard time and makes it difficult to steer the trailer. There are also potential safety problems!)
We never had a problem recovering the Leisure 17 with a rear wheel drive car but although it had plenty of power, it struggled for traction recovering the Evolution 22. There's no doubt that a 4x4 with a front towball completely transforms the whole operation though! If you really don't want a 4x4, I think your best bet would be the heaviest and largest-engined saloon you can find.
This might be useful...
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/Practical+Help/UK+Technical+Advice+and+Info/Towcar+of+the+Year/
I'm in a similar position here.. Planning on getting a trailer sailer eventually so am looking at vehicle options now. Obviously the huge 4x4s will do the job easily but I'd rather not own (or rent) one just for the benefit of the 5 metres of slipway every so often.
The manufacturer limits are very confusing as, for example, A ford mondeo is rated at 1800kg while an X-type jag is only 1500kg despite identical chassis' and the X-type having bigger engine and 4 wheel drive.
Is 4 wheel drive essential on the slipway? or is RWD enough?
and can anybody recommend any cars that will not struggle lifting an 1800kg boat/trailer up a slipway? The only one that I can think of is the impreza but thats only rated for about 1500kg...
[/ QUOTE ]
It's impossible to say without access to the sort of information only the manufacturer would have. I'm with Jimdew on this one. Maybe, for instance, the X-type has the same clutch and with the extra power, they wouldn't want to fry it by allowing the same weight to be towed. Or maybe there is a particular component in the 4 wheel drive setup (a viscous centre diff maybe?) that can't cope with high loads.
As far as the slipway question goes, it really depends on how steep it is and how slippy. The latter can be mitigated to some extent by putting a stout rope between the tow bar and the trailer coupling so that you get the driving wheels on to better terrain. This, however, tends to create other problems (gives the jockey wheel on the trailer a hard time and makes it difficult to steer the trailer. There are also potential safety problems!)
We never had a problem recovering the Leisure 17 with a rear wheel drive car but although it had plenty of power, it struggled for traction recovering the Evolution 22. There's no doubt that a 4x4 with a front towball completely transforms the whole operation though! If you really don't want a 4x4, I think your best bet would be the heaviest and largest-engined saloon you can find.
This might be useful...
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/Practical+Help/UK+Technical+Advice+and+Info/Towcar+of+the+Year/
richardandtracy
New member
Personally I'd go for a van like a Merc Vito or VW T4. They give a pretty nice ride, have a high towing load and gearing suitable for towing rather than ton-up cruising. What's more they're real multi-purpose vehicles if you put a few seats in the back. And they aren't too long at about 15.5 to 16ft.
Insurance is a problem with modified vans though - especially if you want it for private use. I have a Merc Sprinter I modified into a car/camper/van/mpv (depending on how I feel & what I want to move), and only one insurer would touch it - then the price was a bit steep.
Regards
Richard.
Insurance is a problem with modified vans though - especially if you want it for private use. I have a Merc Sprinter I modified into a car/camper/van/mpv (depending on how I feel & what I want to move), and only one insurer would touch it - then the price was a bit steep.
Regards
Richard.
G
Guest
Guest
I repeat again ... LR series 2a / 3 ....cheap, cheerful and
tows right up to max limits .....
Why pay more when for small notes you get all in one .... I had a 1953 LR 2a ..... started everytime, even after standing for months ... never let me down .... then like a fool listened to wife and sold it ... soon regretted it and bought a 1975 LR 3 ..... back in heaven again .... only trouble was they were both petrol 2.25 ltr jobs which are 14mpg ..... better is the 2.25ltr diesel ....
You do sometimes see the 3.5ltr Perkins jobs - which are converted LR's ..... fantastic power - but really specialist and not suited to general use ... as 4WD must be engaged all time and this tears tyres to bits .... the engine power has to be absorbed by using 4wd ..... if you don't the transmission system goes to pot ! But honest - the 3ltr / 3.5 ltr jobs can pull houses down !!!
No the 2.25 ltr diesel Land Rover is a great workhorse and will do all you ask.
For most of what are suggested above ......... you can buy 2, 3, 4, 5 Land Rovers for same money ..... often Tax Exempt, cheap insurance etc. etc.
tows right up to max limits .....
Why pay more when for small notes you get all in one .... I had a 1953 LR 2a ..... started everytime, even after standing for months ... never let me down .... then like a fool listened to wife and sold it ... soon regretted it and bought a 1975 LR 3 ..... back in heaven again .... only trouble was they were both petrol 2.25 ltr jobs which are 14mpg ..... better is the 2.25ltr diesel ....
You do sometimes see the 3.5ltr Perkins jobs - which are converted LR's ..... fantastic power - but really specialist and not suited to general use ... as 4WD must be engaged all time and this tears tyres to bits .... the engine power has to be absorbed by using 4wd ..... if you don't the transmission system goes to pot ! But honest - the 3ltr / 3.5 ltr jobs can pull houses down !!!
No the 2.25 ltr diesel Land Rover is a great workhorse and will do all you ask.
For most of what are suggested above ......... you can buy 2, 3, 4, 5 Land Rovers for same money ..... often Tax Exempt, cheap insurance etc. etc.
Avocet
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
Personally I'd go for a van like a Merc Vito or VW T4. They give a pretty nice ride, have a high towing load and gearing suitable for towing rather than ton-up cruising. What's more they're real multi-purpose vehicles if you put a few seats in the back. And they aren't too long at about 15.5 to 16ft.
Insurance is a problem with modified vans though - especially if you want it for private use. I have a Merc Sprinter I modified into a car/camper/van/mpv (depending on how I feel & what I want to move), and only one insurer would touch it - then the price was a bit steep.
Regards
Richard.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's possible that putting it through a Single Vehicle Approval test might make the insurers happier. Generally adding seats to a panel van is difficult because mounting the seat belt anchorages into something strong enough can be a bit of a problem.
Personally I'd go for a van like a Merc Vito or VW T4. They give a pretty nice ride, have a high towing load and gearing suitable for towing rather than ton-up cruising. What's more they're real multi-purpose vehicles if you put a few seats in the back. And they aren't too long at about 15.5 to 16ft.
Insurance is a problem with modified vans though - especially if you want it for private use. I have a Merc Sprinter I modified into a car/camper/van/mpv (depending on how I feel & what I want to move), and only one insurer would touch it - then the price was a bit steep.
Regards
Richard.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's possible that putting it through a Single Vehicle Approval test might make the insurers happier. Generally adding seats to a panel van is difficult because mounting the seat belt anchorages into something strong enough can be a bit of a problem.
Lakesailor
New member
Re: I repeat again ... LR series 2a / 3 ....cheap, cheerful and
Maybe he wants to go boating, not lie on his back with oil dripping down his sleeve.
Maybe he wants to go boating, not lie on his back with oil dripping down his sleeve.
barrie502
New member
Re: I repeat again ... LR series 2a / 3 ....cheap, cheerful and
I agree. They are good workhorses but on the beaches of pembrokeshire they use tractors. Would not want to have either as day to day transport.
Seriously though, if you have one vehicle it must be a compromise. Land rover/tractor would be ideal for the slip, Volvo v70 or Bmw nice the rest of the time.
I think that a 4wd estate like an audi all road or similar is probably the best one car balance for trailer sailor users.
I agree. They are good workhorses but on the beaches of pembrokeshire they use tractors. Would not want to have either as day to day transport.
Seriously though, if you have one vehicle it must be a compromise. Land rover/tractor would be ideal for the slip, Volvo v70 or Bmw nice the rest of the time.
I think that a 4wd estate like an audi all road or similar is probably the best one car balance for trailer sailor users.
Lakesailor
New member
Just To Be Sure
If you want be sure that your car has the capability you can't do better than to follow Jay Leno's example. The American comedian knows a thing or two about the subject by the look of things.
If you want be sure that your car has the capability you can't do better than to follow Jay Leno's example. The American comedian knows a thing or two about the subject by the look of things.
BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: Just To Be Sure
Jeez, I want one of those!
Jeez, I want one of those!
