How big a car do I need to tow....

[stibbles]

I appreciate there's been lots of posts on this subject, but I seem to be asking the question from the other way round, so thanks for your forebearance.....

I don't have a boat and, from today, I don't have a car either as it went up in a puff of smoke.

So, I want to get a new car with a bit of trailer sailing in mind a little way down the line. How big a car would I need to safely (and legally) tow an average 24' boat?

Is it just the weight of the car that is the clincher? (I've read lots of stuff about 80% rules). Are there any other factors to consider like size of engine or height of driving position (you can tell I'm guessing a bit here)? All this bearing in mind that I'd otherwise buy a fairly small car, so I'd like to know what I can manage with.

Many thanks,

Stibbles

 

[fireball]

Depends what you actually want to do .. if it is just along the road then it isn't so bad, if your after reversing it down steep ramps then your after something a bit meatier ...

At the club we use a Landrover to move the boats round on bomb trolleys, up a fairly steep ramp etc etc, but the turning circle is hopeless ...
I have seen a 25'er towed with a normal estate car ... but don't think it would be a regular occurance!

 

[Lakesailor]

There are very specific requirements for towing weights. Forget 80% and all the rest. Go to National Trailer & Towing Association
Basically the total weight of the trailer and load cannot exceed the manufacturers stated maximum towing weight.
But the gross maximum weight of the trailer, on a plate on the drawbar must not exceed the manufacturers maximum towing weight either even when the trailer is empty.

 

[Guest]

The only sure answer is ....

The Landrover .... diesel if possible as the petrol ones do 14mpg .... I'm talking traditional Landrovers like the Series 2a or 3 .... later ones as the Defender etc. are often fitted with the 2.5 litre diesel from the Discovery.
Now there is a comfortable towing vehicle that will cater for literally max you can think of - the Discovery ..... and there are relatively cheap examples available now.

I'm considering if I don't get to sail my 25ftr to Baltic - I will get hold of a trailer and one of above to tow her over ... old trad LR is most relaible, but uncomfortable, Disco is best compromise ....

Of course there are Isuzu Troopers, LWB Toyota Land-Cruisers, Nissan Patrols etc. - but stay away from the big Petrol jobs unless you wish to mortgage a petrol tanker ....

The smaller 4x4 such as Kia, Suzuki, etc. are not sufficient tow weight ...... along with most cars .... so back to larger meaty 4x4's ....

 

[claymore]

I have a land rover with a towhitch on the front bumper which used to make launching and recover easier. We used to tow our 25 ft hunter Delta up to Scotland very comfortably (using the towhitch at the back) - bearing in mind that 30mph up the A74 is a lot quicker than 5 knots across the Irish Sea

 

[bruce]

all american cars have the tow weights printed in the owner manual and on the car door post, am suprised your country does not require this on your cars. makes life easier than asking for thoughts from others that may or may not be correct. good luck....

 

[Guest]

As far as I can tell we have in EU land same ..... well that is all cars I have had over the last 10 yrs have had it in manual - the volvos I have had and have now - had it on a plate as well ... but the original post says he has no car and wishes to have advise or thoughts about cars etc. for the job .... sure saves shoe leather and bus fares etc. searching car dealers ....

 

[Avocet]

All cars sold in the EC in the last 10 years or so have the various maximum permitted weights on their chassis plates. This is the plate - usually under the bonnet but also often on the base of one of the door pillars that has the car's unique 17-digit VIN number ("chassis number") on it. There will then also be a type approval number - typically a lower case letter "e" followed by a series of numbers and asterisks.

After that, there will be four weights in kilos.

The first is the maximum permitted weight of the car by itself - my wife's says 1750kg. The next number is the maximum "train" weight. This is the greatest amount that the car and any trailer that it is towing at any one time. Again, my wife's car says 3050kg. This means that if it is loaded up to its maximum of 1750kg, it can tow up to 1300kg. If it is loaded up to 1500kg, it can tow up to 1550kg. The last two numbers are the maximum front and rear axle weights respectively. In other words, the maximum amount of weight you can have on each axle at any one time.

These are the weights that can be towed as set out by the manufacturer. NOTE, however, that above a certain trailer weight, the trailer must have brakes. You will have to look in the handbook for the maximum weight of trailer that can be towed without brakes. Most modern cars can tow up to about 500kg without brakes although some larger ones and 4x4s can tow up to 750kg unbraked.

All this is fine but takes little account of how the car feels when doing this and how much it will "enjoy" lugging something up a slipway! The 80% "rule" is a very old one and certainly makes good sense when looking for a "comfortable" towing limit. The National Trailer Towing Association (do a search for NTTA) and the caravan club both have good websites with lots of useful info.

From past experience, we had a little Leisure 17 and towed it extensively with an old Relaint Scimitar. We then bought an Evolution 22 which was longer (22') and heavier (1300kg) and although the car had enough power, it felt awful on the motorway in terms of stability. We also struggled for traction on wet slipways when launching. We then got an old Landrover (Series III) which was brilliant for towing and recovering (especially with a front tow ball) but BOY was it thirsty! (the 2.25 litre petrol engine).
If you don't fancy the expense and thirst of a big 4x4 you could maybe consider an MPV. Most "People carriers" are fairly low-geared for carrying heavy loads so they tend to have quite high towing limits. My current Peugeot 807 has a quoted maximum towing weight of 1850kg - although I've never towed with it. A 25' sailing boat is likely to be pretty heavy - maybe 1.5 tonnes with the trailer.

 

[stibbles]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Very useful stuff as I've come to expect on this board.

I think I have been overly optimistic as I wasn't planning to get a Chelsea tractor, but it's best to find out the facts now!

 

[Lakesailor]

If you'd bothered to read the thread I put a link to the NTTA in the 2nd reply.

So there is no need to do a search for them. Tsk Tsk

 

[William_H]

My experience for what it is worth suggests that the max legal weight is concerned with stability and braking at high speed. While 4x4 is nice to have I have gone from a 4x4 back to rear wheel drive auto which has always been adequate for pulling up the ramp. It depends a lot on how far you want to tow and therefor if you want to remain legal. In my case now only 1/2 kilometre for putting in for the summer out for winter so I don't get too concerned about leagality. I tried a 2 litre Toyota auto once with a 1.25 ton load that was no problem on the ramp or the following steep hill.
Perhaps you shopuld buy the car yoyu want and rent a large 4x4 if you ever need to tow. regards ooewill look at
http://au.msnusers.com/Trailersailerplace for an Oz trailer sailer forum.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

[ QUOTE ]
A 25' sailing boat is likely to be pretty heavy - maybe 1.5 tonnes with the trailer.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think that will be an underestimation for most keelboats. I would expect the boat alone to be about 1.5 tonnes. The trailer could be 0.5 to 1 tonne on top.

My first boat was 7m. It weighed 1.2 tonnes, and the trailer was 0.8 tonnes.

 

[graham]

Years back I used to tow a heavy little bilge keeler around with an old Cortina without a care in the world.

These days I would definitely want to stay legal.If you are involved in an accident with an overweight trailer/boat your insurance will wriggle out ,if a serious accident you may be criminally negligent even if its not your fault.

 

[StugeronSteve]

We used to tow our Dehler 25 very comfortably with a V6 Galaxy. By stripping unused seats out we had loads of room for carrying kit etc. as well.

 

[KeithH]

Another possibility ... why not hire a tow car when you need one? Might be cheaper in the long run. My local hire place has a Mitsubishi Shogun 3.2 litre diesel automatic, with tow bar etc, at £65 per day or £389 per week. For an occasional tow, that would be a lot cheaper than owning such a large beast.

Keith

 

[moondarra]

Land Rover Defender, Diesel, Manual gearbox. We move 12 ton static caravans with these so 2-3 tons of boat is no problem.

If you want a bit of comfort, have a Defender.

Alternatively, why not buy a small car like a Smart, and carry it as deck cargo ???????

 

[stibbles]

Thanks for the NTTA link, Lakesailor, some useful information there.

Thanks also Avocet for your very detailed post. I was thinking of towing long distances, stranded as I am in Nottingham (or should that be washed up), so will need something meaty. Perhaps I look at Keith's suggestion of renting - not rush into buying a 4x4 anyway (don't have any kinds to drop off at school, so no other use for one /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

 

[claymore]

So thats how you do it over there - and there's me thinking you were all risk taking frontiersmen and all the time you comply to manufacturers recommendations - Come on Brucie - this won't do - that wasn't how the west was won.

 

[Avocet]

For what its worth, I've been told that the towing limits manufacturers quote tend to be as much to do with what they are prepared to give a warranty on the transmission and driveline on as wit hstability and braking!

 

[PilotWolf]

I know its difficult to find one these days but I d consider a rear wheel drive vehicle if you intend to use it on slipways... I have a Volvo V70 T5 which is great for towing the boat and the horse trailer until you try a hill start when it heavy - the front (drive) wheels tend to spin easily, even with new tyres and traction control.

PW