Hornblower - and more YM, sort of...

[Bajansailor]

Close-hauled for a square rigger is probably no better than 70 or even 80 degrees off the wind.

The tall ship 'Tres Hombres' used to enter our Round the Island Race every year in January - it is a bit longer than the race around the Isle of Wight but with the disadvantage / advantage (depending on how you look at it) of not having significant tidal streams that could help in a wind against tide situation.
Ship TRES HOMBRES (Sailing Vessel) Registered in Vanuatu - Vessel details, Current position and Voyage information - IMO 0, MMSI 577333000, Call Sign YJQF3

I think she only ever made it around the island once, taking about 16 hours to cover the rhumb line distance of about 60 miles - each time she would try to get around the north end of the island, beating against the NE trades - she would sail perhaps 20 miles north of the island, wear around (or maybe tack) and sail back - and usually find that she had made no net gain to windward.

 

[Poignard]

Well one thing this thread has done is to make me want to read the Hornblower novels again. I last read them more than 60 years ago and I think I might enjoy them even more second time around.

 

[Neeves]

Well one thing this thread has done is to make me want to read the Hornblower novels again. I last read them more than 60 years ago and I think I might enjoy them even more second time around.

I'd hope that Aubrey was on board - he would know the answer.

 

[Hydrozoan]

Id pipe "up spirits" and drift into Dover for a few beers.

I think you may have a different definition of 'clubbing' in mind. On which subject, if the 'clubbing' behind club-hauling means to drag the anchor along the sea bed but a 'club' is otherwise a spar of some kind, what if any is the connection between them?

As to Aubrey, he would surely have claimed to be towing another vessel, against which (if that's the phrase) he would have club-hauled. I seem to recall that he is described as doing so on one occasion - but my ignorance of the fine points of these things is such that I rather like the definition of club-hauling as a sort of 'nautical handbrake turn'.

 

[fisherman]

In 'Last of the Sailing Coasters' by Ted Eglinton (which I recommend) he describes 'drudging', dragging a weight or anchor up river with the tide to control the drift and reach a loading berth.
I have a vague memory of club hauling describing a method of veering a vessel across a current using an uptide anchor.

 

[wombat88]

Aubrey AND Bonden. Bonden's death was almost dismissed and yet he was key to the great man's naval career.

There is a sort of club hauling moment in one of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies.

 

[capnsensible]

Slight drift coz I got no idea what the answer is.

About 20 something years ago I was delivering a yacht from Glasgow to gib. I was short on fuel after a number of days of light airs whilst running down the Portuguese coast. I decided, during the night, to put in to sesimbra for bunkers.
We rounded the nearby headland just after a bit of a misty dawn and the crew on watch called out that they had seen a pirate ship. As we closed the image they had, it did indeed turn out to be a square rigger. It was being used to film scenes for the Hornblower series. Keeping our distance as requested by their rhib safety boat We still had a grandstand view of the action..
On arrival in Sesimbra the dockside was busy with all the associated production people.

We had to Jerry can diesel by taxi. Last stop before Gib though.

 

[Hydrozoan]

In 'Last of the Sailing Coasters' by Ted Eglinton (which I recommend) he describes 'drudging', dragging a weight or anchor up river with the tide to control the drift and reach a loading berth.
I have a vague memory of club hauling describing a method of veering a vessel across a current using an uptide anchor.

Richard Mayne's 'The Language of Sailing' (Amazon.com: The Language of Sailing: 9781579582784: Mayne, Richard: Books ) refers somewhat similarly to 'clubbing' as '... making sternway in a tide to reach a berth', although other definitions refer less specifically to moving/drifting with the anchor dragging.

Mayne also gives a typical definition of 'to club haul' and cites its use by Captain Hayes in 1814 to extricate HMS Magnificent from between two reefs. According to Wiki (John Hayes (Royal Navy officer) - Wikipedia) Hayes became known as 'Magnificent Hayes' for keeping his ship from being driven onto rocks, having lost both anchors in the Basque Roads. Another definition of club-haul here What does to club-haul mean? (definitions.net) has a slightly different account: '... with lower-yards and top-masts struck, he escaped between two reefs from the enemy at Oleron'.

 

[benjenbav]

All of this reminds me of another book, “Paul Elvstrom explains the Yacht Racing Rules” which in the 1970s edition that I once had came with small plastic model boats with moving booms to enable you to position them to reflect on various headings. Nothing that couldn’t be achieved with pencil and paper, but somehow more fun.

 

[Poignard]

Here's a fascinating book that I continue to enjoy:


Also available as an eBook and you can download a PDF of it.

 

[fisherman]

Thanks, P, just ordered it.


(and not from Amazon, boycotting them)

 

[ean_p]

In 'Last of the Sailing Coasters' by Ted Eglinton (which I recommend) he describes 'drudging', dragging a weight or anchor up river with the tide to control the drift and reach a loading berth.
I have a vague memory of club hauling describing a method of veering a vessel across a current using an uptide anchor.

The term was I understand also used on the Humber by the ships and especially barges to swing them around from the tidal stream of the Humber and into the River Hull as the flow was such that it was not always possible to sail / warp into the river. The technique apparently went something like dropping a suitable weight from the vessel flowing with the tide at the appropriate moment such that the vessel was swung round into the river and out of the stream of the Humber but into the stream of the flooding Hull. A mistake would have surely put you against the bank/ point and rolled in the stream.
I've also seen the term used in US sailing terminology too......

 

[Poignard]

In 'Last of the Sailing Coasters' by Ted Eglinton (which I recommend) he describes 'drudging', dragging a weight or anchor up river with the tide to control the drift and reach a loading berth.
I have a vague memory of club hauling describing a method of veering a vessel across a current using an uptide anchor.

Oh dear! That's another book I'll have to find room for.

 

[LadyInBed]

My solution -
When in doubt, anchor out.
I just made that up, but it sounds like a good idea ?

 

[Poignard]

My solution -
When in doubt, anchor out.
I just made that up, but it sounds like a good idea ?

Or

When in trouble, when in doubt,

Run in circles, scream and shout.​

 

[benjenbav]

My solution -
When in doubt, anchor out.
I just made that up, but it sounds like a good idea ?

2 miles due south of Dover: you might need quite a lot of chain. ?

 

[Habebty]

Run for Pompey, and hope the pubs are still open, or, head for Calais and hope they are all asleep. Actually, from 2 miles off Dover, it might make it up the Downs and gain shelter from the Goodwins depending on the tidal stream. Plenty of wrecks of others who thought the same though!!

 

[LadyInBed]

2 miles due south of Dover: you might need quite a lot of chain. ?

Charted depth around 23 to 25m

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Charted depth around 23 to 25m

And the anchor cable would have been (guess what!) a cable long - for the younger generation, that's a tenth of a nautical mile or about 200m. But it wouldn't have been ready to lower.

 

[Slowboat35]

I don't think the question was asked to initially determine where he might go, but to test his ship-handling abilities and seamanship to extricate himself from a very hazardous situation (poss. dismasting) with minimal risk to the ship. Where he might head later would depend entirely on what, if any damage he had recieved. For a start you'd need to be briefed on what ship you were on and what her rig was.
Can you clew up tops'ls and t'gallants when aback in a blow? I'd want to get as much load off the masts as fast as possible. Letting fly the spanker would reduce its opposition to the ship's paying off to port and wearing onto the stbd tack, and full helm a-stbd would assist that. You might use sail to ensure she comes around nicely because of the danger of being pinned down crosswinded (clew up the main to put the centre of effort fwd, maybe even brace the fores'l onto the stbd tack?)
If you're out of that intact, and they didn't seem too intent on that happening, your close-hauled heading has gone from SE to S on port tack and from NW to N on stbd. 2 miles S of Dover is not a place to think the Downs when your best course is only N. I think he dives into the lee of Dungeness to anchor.

But on the other hand that's all the conjecture of a non-square rig sailor and I'm not at all sure the author ever intended an answer to be found to the question, rather it was just an example of hazing in a promotion exam.

Where are all the square-rig sailors?