clyst
Well-known member
Have a look at a Seal 28 ......standing headroom and a small aft cabin ,oh and a lifting keel .
Hi. New here. New to boating. Need advice
- Thread starter dannylacose
- Start date
dannylacose
New member
Thanks Bru.
When you mentioned the Sabre 27, I wondered what that was So did a search and saw this absolutely gorgeous boat.
http://www.boatshed.com/sabre_27-boat-225050.html
Gawd. Decisions, decisions.....
Just from looking I can tell there's no shortage of great affordable boats out there. This is great. This makes me very happy.
I'm compiling a list of candidates right now, maybe about half a dozen boats or more. Then I'm gonna book a holiday just to view them all. I see a lot of boatyards in my future.
dannylacose
New member
Another great looking boat:
http://www.boatshed.com/voyager_30-boat-173351.html
One thing I'm noticing is that few of these boats seem to have any wardrobe space. I wonder why that is ?
http://www.boatshed.com/voyager_30-boat-173351.html
One thing I'm noticing is that few of these boats seem to have any wardrobe space. I wonder why that is ?
Bru
Well-known member
'Cos they're (relatively) small and built for short term holiday cruising. Wardrobe space is not a high priority in a boat that's only used for a week or two at a time
That's one of the many differences between holidaying and living aboard that I didn't list
Other things that really make a difference are ...
Has it got or is there somewhere to install a reasonable size fridge? You can manage without a fridge for holidays but it's practically essential for a liveaboard
Has it got or is it feasible to install a hot water system? Again, lots of people will jump on this and say you don't need one but believe me, boiling a kettle every time you need hot water gets rather tiresome after a while (tell me about it, the hot water system on our boat is still in the container and only slowly making it's way up the "to do" list!)
I'd add a decent sized heads compartment to the list personally, one that isn't cramped and within which it's comfortably possible to have an all over wash or better yet shower on board. Yes, you can use the shoreside facilities for showering but it becomes a chore when you're doing it on a daily basis. I particularly dislike having to immediately dry, as best I can, and get dressed as opposed to being able to chuck on a dressing gown and relax
None of the above is in any way impossible on an older, cheaper boat such as you're looking at (the Longbow even has the shower tray and grating already moulded in) and all can be added to a suitable boat as time and money permits
Your requirements may vary, of course, but whilst it's easy to say "I can do without xxx" in practice it's not so easy to do!
That Sabre looks OK superficially but casting a bleary eye at the details I suspect it's rougher than it looks. The Voyager doesn't look bad either but more expensive than the Longbow you posted and lying on the Canal-du-Midi it'd come with a whole bunch of extra costs to get it back to the UK
dannylacose
New member
Thanks Clyst. That looks absolutely lovely.
http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/seal-28/seal-28.htm
I'll nose around and see if I can see one in the in 10 - 15 grand range.
dannylacose
New member
'Cos they're (relatively) small and built for short term holiday cruising. Wardrobe space is not a high priority in a boat that's only used for a week or two at a time
That's one of the many differences between holidaying and living aboard that I didn't list
Other things that really make a difference are ...
Has it got or is there somewhere to install a reasonable size fridge? You can manage without a fridge for holidays but it's practically essential for a liveaboard
Has it got or is it feasible to install a hot water system? Again, lots of people will jump on this and say you don't need one but believe me, boiling a kettle every time you need hot water gets rather tiresome after a while (tell me about it, the hot water system on our boat is still in the container and only slowly making it's way up the "to do" list!)
I'd add a decent sized heads compartment to the list personally, one that isn't cramped and within which it's comfortably possible to have an all over wash or better yet shower on board. Yes, you can use the shoreside facilities for showering but it becomes a chore when you're doing it on a daily basis. I particularly dislike having to immediately dry, as best I can, and get dressed as opposed to being able to chuck on a dressing gown and relax
None of the above is in any way impossible on an older, cheaper boat such as you're looking at (the Longbow even has the shower tray and grating already moulded in) and all can be added to a suitable boat as time and money permits
Your requirements may vary, of course, but whilst it's easy to say "I can do without xxx" in practice it's not so easy to do!
That Sabre looks OK superficially but casting a bleary eye at the details I suspect it's rougher than it looks. The Voyager doesn't look bad either but more expensive than the Longbow you posted and lying on the Canal-du-Midi it'd come with a whole bunch of extra costs to get it back to the UK
Thanks Bru.
I suppose, if push comes to shove, I could rig up a rail aboard somewhere to hang half a dozen shirts and a couple of trousers on. Would probably need a decent fabric spray, when ironing, to neutralise the smell from damp and diesel.
The fridge, I agree, is a must-have. A microwave too.
A hot shower would be great. But it's not a deal breaker when eventually I find the boat I want. A bucket of warm water used together with a large plastic cup and a bottle of shower gel should see me through until a proper shower unit can be sorted.
You can install a conventional house shower unit on a boat, right ? Or do you need a special boat one ?
Also I imagine, while out cruising, in the summer, you could dunk yourself in the ocean a few times and come out looking nice and fresh. The ocean is your bathtub ! Ha.
Anyways, all of these things I would keep an eye on when I start viewing. But I imagine buying a boat is not much different from buying a house. You walk in and you think to yourself `yeah this is it. This is my girl right here.'
If that means shrugging off a couple of things on the checklist because you've found the boat that's right for you, then so be it.
Tranona
Well-known member
Living aboard and having a conventional work life is often very difficult. Most berths that are affordable tend to be in remote locations so owning a car is probably necessary. Sticking to a 9-5 work routine where each morning requires a trip ashore to the loos etc, wandering through a deserted marina then a long car or maybe bike ride - you get the picture. You have already identified the lack of storage on a smaller boat intended for weekend cruising where the priority is the number of berths. So a poor substitute for shoreside living.
The people who seem to have most success at living aboard are those with flexibility. So self employed who can work from boat, involved in marine industry, offshore workers doing weeks on/off, retired or semi, young people operating in what is now called the "gig" economy.
So, keep the rose tinted spectacle well hidden and think through the practicalities so that your boat does not end up as one of the abandoned dreams that you find in every boatyard!
dannylacose
New member
Thanks but I'm not fazed by the work aspect. I own a decent set of wheels.
I work in the security industry. And although I work mostly on sites in Bristol (where I'm living right now), the company I work for has sites all over the UK and I've worked on many of them. I can't tell you how many times I've driven 100 miles to cover a 12 hour shift in another city and driven back the same day. No biggie.
I'm not going into this with rose-tinted glasses on. All I want to know is what life is like as a liveaboard, the best boat to get and how to make that life work for me. All issues concerning work and travel and so forth are things I can handle for myself.
Sticky Fingers
Well-known member
Friend of mine lives aboard a small river / canal boat. She's solved the storage conundrum by using a Transit Connect as her daily wheels and converting the back of it to include a hanging wardrobe for clothes, and built in racks to store all the stuff she needs to hand but there's no room for on the boat. Had it done by a firm that racks out vans for trades people. Parks it in the marina car park near her boat.
Sea Devil
Well-known member
The 2nd boat I ever owned was a Jaguar 25. During the first months I owned her I set sail in her from the Solent towards Cherbourg. In a F6 the rudder blade broke off and the French Navy ended up towing me into Cherbourg. Cost my insurers a bomb and it took me 2 years to sell the blasted thing - more here http://www.michaelbriant.com/1st_time_with_vhf.htm.
dannylacose
New member
I just read it. Great story. Gawd I hope that doesn't happen to me.
Tranona
Well-known member
With due respect some of the boats that have caught your eye have an element of rose tinted specs about them.
None of them are designed for living aboard so all have their limitations, sometimes severe and the big challenge is seeing ways round that. Plus with your budget you are in the market where most boats are old and worn out in addition to being designed for a different purpose. Life gets easier as you go up in size as the additional space allows for more storage and by the time you get to 34' a lot of those issues go away. However that inevitably means a bigger budget both for purchase and running costs.
Don't get me wrong - i enjoyed my spells living aboard, but way preferred doing it on a 37 with 3 cabins, decent size galley and loo/shower, storage, water capacity and all those things that make life bearable.
dannylacose
New member
Fair enough. Yours is the voice of experience and I'll defer to that. That's why I'm here. To learn. About boats and about the boating world. So your advice in this regard is very much welcome and appreciated. But advice on how difficult it is to work from a boat or how hard it is to get to work and so forth isn't really needed. Also talk about abandoned boats and broken dreams isn't much use to me either.
I'm still looking at boats at the moment and seeking opinions. I'm happy to raise my price bracket and boat size if need be. But right now I'm just looking at pictures and hearing what people think.
I've got a lot to learn but there are a lot of really great people on this forum and I am deeply appreciative of your wisdom and support.
Bru
Well-known member
I still think the Longbow looks pretty good at the budget end of the market. Forget the rest frankly, they may look good in photos but they're not suitable for what you need (as opposed to what you might want!)
I'd also venture that, based on your positive reaction to every suggestion made so far, you need to go fender kicking around a load of boatyards ideally at some point with someone who has a more jaundiced eye and can point out all the potential problems to you because, with the best will in the world, I guarantee you'll miss stuff that an experienced boater won't even without rose tinted specs (and I've done the rose tinted specs thing, haven''t I just!)
I'd also venture that, based on your positive reaction to every suggestion made so far, you need to go fender kicking around a load of boatyards ideally at some point with someone who has a more jaundiced eye and can point out all the potential problems to you because, with the best will in the world, I guarantee you'll miss stuff that an experienced boater won't even without rose tinted specs (and I've done the rose tinted specs thing, haven''t I just!)
dannylacose
New member
Thanks Bru. Sorry to impose but I have a question.
What's the difference between this longbow ...
http://www.boatshed.com/westerly_longbow-boat-225023.html
.... and this longbow ?
http://www.boatshed.com/westerly_longbow-boat-225607.html
The first longbow is only older than the second by a couple of years, yet the second longbow costs twice as much. My inexperienced eyes can't see much difference other than the fact that the second boat has newer furnishings and a cleaner interior. But that shouldn't account for the 10 grand difference, should it ? Or could it be because the second longbow has a bigger engine ?
Lucy52
Active member
Mainly because:
"This particular example has been cared for, maintained and improved it appears continuously throughout her life and it shows as soon as you step aboard. Although the owner still has one or two jobs on his list (it's a boat, after all) she really is in true sail away condition having been re-engined, rigged, upholstered, canvassed and equipped all within the last 7 years. She looks and smells clean and dry and is presented very nicely, a real pleasure to be aboard."
Also due to location, Essex v isle of Wight.
The first will likely cost you soon enough in replacement, repairs and general fettling to make the second a better purchase.
"This particular example has been cared for, maintained and improved it appears continuously throughout her life and it shows as soon as you step aboard. Although the owner still has one or two jobs on his list (it's a boat, after all) she really is in true sail away condition having been re-engined, rigged, upholstered, canvassed and equipped all within the last 7 years. She looks and smells clean and dry and is presented very nicely, a real pleasure to be aboard."
Also due to location, Essex v isle of Wight.
The first will likely cost you soon enough in replacement, repairs and general fettling to make the second a better purchase.
Hadenough
Well-known member
Maybe 30 years ago!
Sandy
Well-known member
How about a Mirage 28, six foot standing room?
I know somebody who has one for sail at well under your budget price!
I know somebody who has one for sail at well under your budget price!
dannylacose
New member
Thanks Sandy. How much ? How old ?
Kelpie
Well-known member
The biggest factor in the value of an old boat is the age/condition of the engine.
A 20yr old Yanmar may well be absolutely fine, but a 5yr old engine is what most buyers are really looking for.
Also, asking prices are not the same as boat values. That £20k Longbow is well cared for but probably priced a bit optimistically.