Help! How to get my new Sonata back to the Solent?

[MissFitz]

Some forumites may remember that I was thinking of buying a Sonata. So a I found a nice one in Brixham, stripped for racing but in good shape & with an excellent set of sails. A friend offered to help me sail it back to the Solent, so I thought I had all eventualities covered & bought it.

Now said friend is saying that it's not possible to sail it back because, among other things, it hasn't got proper lights & the outboard may not be reliable. He's a very experienced offshore skipper, so I have to take what he says seriously. On the other hand, I've asked a couple of small boat owners who say they can't see what the problem is & that I should be fine with good sails & emergency lights (plus things to shine on sails in an actual emergency).

I should perhaps add that other things it hasn't got include: battery, fixed VHF, depth sounder. What it has got is: anchor, flares, fenders. What I've got includes: 2x handheld VHF, handheld GPS, handheld chart plotter, phone with Navionics, PLB, life raft, danbuoy & other basic safety kit.

So my urgent question is, who do people think is right here? Is the whole idea of going across Lyme Bay in this boat insane/illegal? Is it safe and/or legal to do it without proper lights? If not, what is getting them fitted going to involve (ie would the boat have to come out of the water, how long might it take, how much might it cost)? And is there anything else I can do to prevent this turning into a very expensive & painful process? (I live in Brighton so getting down to Brixham to work on the boat is not easy, plus I'm borrowing a mooring at the moment so will have to move soon & absolutely can't afford to have it sat in Brixham marina for weeks.)

All suggestions & input very much appreciated, thank you!

 

[Minchsailor]

Cant see the problem. When I was Solent based this was a trip I did often.

I would have thought even in a small Sonata it could all be done in day sails, especially with the days getting longer. Brixham - Portland/Weymouth-Swanage/Studland Bay-Solent-Chichester Harbour-Shoreham (if you can't make Brighton in one hop). Prevailing winds will be with you.

Nav lights - Sonata is a small boat, the battery operated 'emergency' lights will be fine if you don't make an anchorage before nightfall.

Navigation - get the Imray charts for the trip, it is not as if you will be creek crawling and need the fine detail. Use your Mk1 eyeball. Take a LW portable radio for the shipping forecast.

Outboard - I would be slightly worried as it is an unknown quantity. Get it serviced, get the recommended spares (and know how to fit them) and adequate fuel.

Echo sounder - lead line?

Choose a weather wind and get the tides right, especially at Portland Bill and Hurst narrows, Enjoy.

 

[markhomer]

I had one amognst other boats , purely for racing , ive always disliked them , but thats an aside .
, they are built like proverbial brick sh1t houses , they can take just about anything thrown at them , theyve been cruised and raced around west coast of scotland in great seas, tides etc , infact a young couple circumnavigated scotland in theirs then raced in the nationals next day . Sailing in stupid winds is possible , but not a lot of fun .

Theres no reason why not , unless yours is structurally knackered . As they are only 7 metres long they only need an all round white light to comply with regs , but you could buy a full set of led battery powered nav lights up and running for a few squids .

Sounds like your buddy has same dislike , to be honest travelling at 4.5 knotts is a aquired taste hard to develope .

Im being a tad tongue in cheek here , but believe me and many others if nothing else the sonata is thoroughly seaworthy .

They also provide great class racing at low cost as you cant buy more speed , the old ior bump ( speed limiter ) takes care of that .

They are good looking wee boats and hit top speed in lightest of winds .

If you cant get someone who knows what they are doing to go with you and you arent experienced , borrow a trailer and tow it down , after all the snotter sailors are one of the friendliest bunch i know , and always willing to help .

Ask your questions on sonata class forum , you may even get volunteers there .

Good luck

 

[RupertW]

I admit I'd be a bit wary without an echo sounder and find it a bit uncivilised without a battery for domestic lighting but emergency portable nav lights last a lot longer and are brighter now than the set I carried around with me which were powered by 1 C battery.

The outboard engine unreliability would bother me a bit if you are stuck in a calm but thats more about wanting to get there in hours not days rather than safety.

Nothing odd about the size of the boat and crossing Lyme bay - I did it in my 24 footer alone a year or two ago but I had had the boat for 6 years then and knew it inside out. Having said that the first time I started the engine after buying it was setting out from Felixstowe Ferry to Ramsgate which is a much tricker crossing than Lyme Bay.

The one big concern I have is that it's about experience and confidence and as you are asking the question I'm not sure you have enough to cope with the odd breakage that you will probably get on a new (to you) boat. The ideal in my opinion would be a sail round to Dartmouth our just out for a few hours to really try everything out and make a decision.

 

[Romeo]

It certainly is possible to sail it back, but if your friend says he is unwilling to do so without certain things, that is his call.

I have sailed a small boat with no engine, and no electrics whatsoever for long distances. What was needed was time.... it doesn't do to be in a hurry to leave or to arrive for reasons other than tide or weather.

 

[TallBuoy]

Buy another one that's in the Solent already.

 

[Judders]

A lot of sailors are still living in the past but now, independent captive units are the way to go for a lot of things, especially on small boats. Lights are one example and the same goes for your cabin lights too. The best bit, unlike with a more traditional electrical system, if one thing fails it doesn't bugger everything else.

Congratulations on your purchase. There were some very smart Sonatas in Brixham when I was there last summer, one of which I believe was for sale and really caught my eye.

In terms of the passage, you'll be fine with fair weather and good prep. The neysayers of this parish who will poopoo the idea are often those who have a 40'er and wont go past the Needles and who learned all their best stories from books.

 

[Biggles Wader]

It certainly is possible to sail it back, but if your friend says he is unwilling to do so without certain things, that is his call.

I have sailed a small boat with no engine, and no electrics whatsoever for long distances. What was needed was time.... it doesn't do to be in a hurry to leave or to arrive for reasons other than tide or weather.

A lot of sailors are still living in the past but now, independent captive units are the way to go for a lot of things, especially on small boats. Lights are one example and the same goes for your cabin lights too. The best bit, unlike with a more traditional electrical system, if one thing fails it doesn't bugger everything else.

Congratulations on your purchase. There were some very smart Sonatas in Brixham when I was there last summer, one of which I believe was for sale and really caught my eye.

In terms of the passage, you'll be fine with fair weather and good prep. The neysayers of this parish who will poopoo the idea are often those who have a 40'er and wont go past the Needles and who learned all their best stories from books.

Agreed.
Plus an outboard that will work if needed.

 

[lw395]

I've done that trip in a slightly slower version of the Sonata, courtesy of the RYA in the early 80s.
We did not have depth sounders, GPS, VHF or engines.
We had 2 anchors, a big oar and some sails.
Ample charts, almanac, HB compass, lead line.

If you really suspect the outboard might be duff, it should not be hard to borrow a spare?
Mostly cleaning out the carb and buying a new plug sorts a lot of temperamental outboards.
It might also be nice to borrow a rubber dinghy and a few fuel cans perhaps.

I would suggest planning to stop at Weymouth. If you run out of wind Lyme is an option.

I'd suggest a pilot book like Fishwick's West Country Cruising.
Portland is the obvious obstacle, but personally I treat Hurst and St Aldhelms with respect too.

 

[mainsail1]

Yea, go for it. I would do day sails if it were me.

 

[PhillM]

How about rent a trailer and a van and tow it back?

Although sailing her back seems more fun. I must admit I'd like to have a fixed VHF, leisure battery and a few lights. Perhaps a rented raft and borrowed PLB perhaps. None of this is going to cost much and providing as others have said, you have the time to be cautions on the forecast.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marine-LE...938446?hash=item257adaa14e:g:U90AAOSwGotWl5Iw

http://www.halfords.com/camping-lei...ctrical-power/halfords-leisure-battery-115-ah

http://www.force4.co.uk/force-4-lar...gclid=CNzkz_ToiNMCFe8V0wode3gB5Q#.WOKHZ2_sLIU

http://www.reliancemarine.com/Produ...ck/View.aspx?gclid=CI-2j7fpiNMCFUQW0wodqJ4N5g

+ antenna of course


Add a switch panel and something to mount it on and off you go:

http://www.force4.co.uk/department/electrical/switch-panels-battery-switches-battery-monitoring.html

 

[Topcat47]

The old RYA young skippers scheme had a bunch of Duettes that were engineless. In the '80s I regularly saw these boats hurtling around the coast with four youngsters aboard, all wet through but having a whale of a time. I don't remember if they had nav lights but I do know they had lead lines, compasses charts and an almanac. A pair of long sweeps were carried for progress when there was no wind. They probably carried a Tilley lamp as a salon light/anchor light.

I'd not do it single handed without some modern electronics; I'm no great fan of H/H VHF sets as they are very short range but I carry a pair of H/H GPS on my own boat and never felt the need for anything more. Offshore I switch off the echo sounder anyway as it wastes amps. I'd take a good hand bearing compass, a good pair of binoculars and a steamer scarer with plenty of spare batteries. Some Sonatas were fin keel, and if you have one, steer clear of Lyme Regis as the harbour dries. It is doable in Daysails if you plan for around 50 miles/day but I don't know where the stopping points would be. I would even go without a log as most H/H GPS offer the facility.

Perfect Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. If I were to do this myself, I'd pencil in "no go" areas on the charts to keep me free of shallows and underwater obstacles. This includes selecting secondary bolt holes for every leg of the journey, including anchorages if necessary. Have the OB serviced and carry clean fuel or even buy a new one if it's a concern, it's your life anyway and if you do get a new one, it's one less thing to worry about.

 

[doug748]

All suggestions & input very much appreciated, thank you!

Well done, congratulations.

Sounds like you are magnificently well equipped. Don't leave on an iffy forecast.

 

[PeterV]

How things have changed, I used to do this passage regularly in my Hunter 19 singlehanded. I thought the minimum requirements were a compass, a chart and a paraffin lamp. You seem a lot better equipped already!

 

[dragonvc]

Go for it I have done trip to Dartmouth regatta and back from the Hamble in a 23 foot Minitonner usually two up in winds at times up to force7 .Best time Dartmouth to Yarmouth in 15 hours.If you end up with a beat on adverse spring tide it can take a long time.If trying to do in daylight Weymouth will be the option to break the trip and boat can be left there if weather gone wrong.West Bay an option to line up for Portland Bill which is usually ok if nav calculation has been done correctly if in doubt go outside.With a small boat you can be several hours out on calculated time to cross Lyme Bay so if hoping to go inside passage at Portland Bill and tide has turned you will need to go outside where the tide is weaker.
For lights get a set of emergency lights and a strong Led torch to shine light on sails,you have GPS,spare batteries?paper charts? As said Imray have port charts.If no cooker plenty of flasks for hot drinks lots of high energy snacks.
Get the Outboard serviced so reliable spare plugs fresh fuel in cans.There is an outboard specialist at Kingswear.If you need a panic button a PLB at £200 or less to last 5 years minimum is cheap.
As said do a short trip or two to shake down,go up the rigging and inspect,make sure halyards run freely.Finally give a wide berth to fishing boats in Lyme Bay as they trawl on very erratic courses due to number of wrecks on the sea bed.Have fun be patient and a great sense of satisfaction when completed the voyage.

 

[Phil the Cowman]

Not sure I can see a problem. Great opportunity to get to know your new boat ( which sounds great! ). You posted a suggestion on the racing forum about offshore racing on a budget; well here's some relatively civilised offshore practice for you. You seem to have more than enough gear already; except lights - I find bicycle lights do the job really well ( a bit of green insulating tape turns a white light into a green light.) If you want to do a long one, then I would suggest you cross the relatively unbusy Lyme Bay at night - obvs bearing in mind the need for a favourable tide past the Bill and then you can cope with the traffic further east in daylight.
Have done the trip both ways in a 17 and a 24 footer; fun! dolphins! "Sailing By " in the middle of the night - what's not to like?

 

[Pye_End]

The old RYA young skippers scheme had a bunch of Duettes that were engineless. In the '80s I regularly saw these boats hurtling around the coast with four youngsters aboard, all wet through but having a whale of a time. I don't remember if they had nav lights but I do know they had lead lines, compasses charts and an almanac. A pair of long sweeps were carried for progress when there was no wind. They probably carried a Tilley lamp as a salon light/anchor light.

Indeed - I was one from this scheme. Shame it isn't still running - great for getting the confidence of sailing and chart work. The group leaders boat had a VHF, otherwise communication was by shouting. I believe later on the group leaders boat acquired an outboard, but for use under what circumstances I know not.

The boats did have nav lights - you started the cruise with a charged battery and the intention was always to do one night sail.

To the OP - the trip is perfectly doable in your circumstances, but echo the desire to be well lit in case you need to sail at night, even if it an all round white, and a strong spotlamp.

I bought my first boat (Sonata) from Southampton and sailed her to the Backwater many years ago at Easter- no VHF, no GPS, dicky outboard, knackered battery etc etc (though did have an echo sounder). First ever trip in first boat - unforgettable.

 

[jac]

Indeed - I was one from this scheme. Shame it isn't still running - great for getting the confidence of sailing and chart work. The group leaders boat had a VHF, otherwise communication was by shouting. I believe later on the group leaders boat acquired an outboard, but for use under what circumstances I know not.

The boats did have nav lights - you started the cruise with a charged battery and the intention was always to do one night sail.

To the OP - the trip is perfectly doable in your circumstances, but echo the desire to be well lit in case you need to sail at night, even if it an all round white, and a strong spotlamp.

I bought my first boat (Sonata) from Southampton and sailed her to the Backwater many years ago at Easter- no VHF, no GPS, dicky outboard, knackered battery etc etc (though did have an echo sounder). First ever trip in first boat - unforgettable.

Wow.

When I was a group leader on the old YS Sonatas, not even the GL had a VHF. When I went back to lead a second time I had to do the VHF exam myself as they had upgraded them over the winter. Great boats, great scheme.

As to the OP.

Another vote for going.

With the amount of nav equipment you have you won't get lost. Sonatas don't need much wind to get going so you should be fine even if the wind does die. As a racing boat I assume she has decent sails and handling gear so lack of outboard should be no great shakes.

Agree with the comment re getting the engine serviced but on boats like that it's an auxiliary. Get you in and out of harbour or to avoid being run down in a calm. It's not a guarantee of the boats ability to make 5knots plus in any conditions.

If you are able to choose your weather window then no real fear of being at sea at night. Set off from Brixham around dawn ( so 6am ish) and you could be entering Weymouth by sun set even if you only make 4 knots and have favourable tide in the key bits. It's fairly weak in lyme bay so no big issue if foul there. With prevailing SW you should be able to rely on a nice broad reach the whole way, Gybe off the bill then reach on port to Weymouth entrance.

 

[Uricanejack]

Its unfortunate I live so far away. Or I would offer to tag along for the ride.

The boat will be fine with a set of emergency lights and a hand held vhf.
everything else sounds well equipped. I'd stick a RADAR cheep reflector on it if it doesn't have one.
Getting the outboard serviced is a good idea and will put your mind at rest. for not a lot of money. If its really dodgy the service tech will tell you. Good new can with clean fuel is money well spent. I discovered this after having my outboard serviced then used an old can of fuel and had to get it serviced again.
No echo sounder so what? Charts will tell you where the rocks and shoals are. Sonatas have a shallow draft anyway.

I delivered my boats home myself. the first one was something similar an old 24ft C&C which had been used for racing round cans. It had virtually no interior or equipment. But sails were ok and motor started with a couple of pulls.
My opinion was so long as the hull and rig was sound. I was good to go.
Hand held compass, plotting tools and charts. I brought with me. Hand held VHF. Brought with me. Getting ready I bought basic safety equipment. near the boat.
Spent some cash on some comforts. Camping gear. Including stove, coffee, tea pot, a pot for soup. some tools to eat with.
Sleeping bags, wet weather gear and a change of warm clothes.
Seams easy but getting it all to a boat a couple of hundred miles away, is a bit more involved than you might think.
I found getting around a strange town didn't know getting stuff I needed to be a PIA. It took a toll on limited time.

Can you find another friend. who will trust your experience?
It can be done single handed. But it will be better with a friend. I did my first delivery of the 24ft C&C with my two of my kids 9 & 10. took a few days. stopping every night. It was one of the best trips we ever had on the wee boat.
My 9 yr old daughter made an acceptable substitute for an auto pilot, until she spotted some cute seals.

My other boat had further to travel and we did a couple of long legs. even with a 2nd crew It was very tiring. No auto pilot.(still don't have one)

I would suggest planning on taking a few days. stopping of at night.

Congratulations on your new boat, you will have fun bringing it home.

 

[stuartwineberg]

I share the view that a reliable, tested outboard would give me a lot of confidence. You can raise the coastguard on a decent h/h vhf but make sure it is charged and take a set of a spare batteries and of course, despite it not being the recommended safety item, take at least one fully charged phone and keep it for an emergency. Tell people when and where you are going. If you have a chart plotter with up to date charts I wouldn't worry too much about the depth sounder. I would day sail as much to avoid fatigue as anything. Definitely do some short test sails to check everything before the big one.