Heavy Anchor - Inefficient Windlass?

[demonboy]

We've recently upgraded from a 22kg CQR to a 33kg Rocna. When weighing anchor the windlass gets the shank up to the bow-roller and then groans and strains. Fortunately I'd tied a line to the crown and was able to pull the anchor over the bow roller, but I don't want to be relying on a trip line every time I weigh as we're sometimes anchoring twice a day in the summer. Even with the CQR the windlass would cut out when bringing up more than 50m chain.

We have a Quick 800w Antares style windlass, similar to these, but older. The breaker is rated at 60a and the cables look up to the job. We always weigh with the engine on, preferably in gear, and both sets of batteries on (domestic and engine). I understand an independent battery at the motor is not a solution (see Calder).

I guess my question is, am I able to replace just the motor for a bigger one or would I have to replace the whole unit? What alternatives are there?

All help appreciated.

 

[PeterGibbs]

I have a Sprint 1000 pulling 8mm chain and a 25kg anchor. I have the same experience - the last meter is an effort for the beast! But I find that inducing a swing in the anchor helps the shank over the roller and into place - bit cheaper than tossing the whole gear out.

From your description you are getting the best out of your existing gear - just working it it more!

If you renew the windlass it is possible you'll be into rewiring and a fair amount of structural work to bed the new windlass. Quite a lot to contemplate....
PWG

 

[Poignard]

If the windlass can get the anchor up of the sea bed to the bow then there can't be much wrong with it.

I suspect the proplem is that when the anchor shank is just on the bow roller it becomes an inefficient lever with the roller acting as fulcrum. The longer arm of the lever has the heavy crown at its end and the short arm has the windless pulling it. The windless has to pull on this short lever to get the anchor almost horizontal before it can pull it over the roller.

Maybe you need one of those double roller fairleads? The kind with one roller in front of the other.

 

[demonboy]

Hmmm, good points. One thing I did add was one of those multi-directional hinge things to connect between the eye and the chain. This may have been a mistake as the anchor came up the wrong way when I last weighed.

Also I'm not sure I agree that the windlass can get the anchor off the sea bed. I don't use it for that. I normally motor over the anchor to break it.

Double roller fairleads. I like that idea and I can see it working. Would the front one be set lower than the back one?

 

[AncoraLatina]

[ QUOTE ]
<span style="color:blue"> We've recently upgraded from a 22kg CQR to a 33kg Rocna. When weighing anchor the windlass gets the shank up to the bow-roller and then groans and strains. </span>

[/ QUOTE ]
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Is your new anchor so bad that you’ve been obliged to OVERSIZE it by <span style="color:red">150% </span> ?? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

João

 

[demonboy]

I thought this might happen.

May I just ask, very politely, to keep your useless anchor comments to the Skuttlebutt/Lounge forums please? Thanks.

 

[Salty John]

As Twisterowner says, the problem is the inefficient lever when the shank is up against the roller and the windlass is pulling at right angles to the shank.
What you need is a hinged, double roll bow roller. The problem might be getting one for this size anchor - the common ones such as Plastimo supply go up to 20kg.
Otherwise you just accept the fact that you have to give the anchor a helping hand to get the shank rocked over the roller.
Pretty big anchor - you must feel secure in a blow!

 

[pyrojames]

I changed to a double roller toggle fairlead, with the two rollers fitted on the toggle. The toggle is about 250 mm long, roller at each end, with the pivot in the middle, with the pivot pin goes through the original roller axis. It makes a HUGE difference to lifting the anchor (60 lb CQR), next to no resistance at all as the the anchor comes home. Any half decent welder should be able to make up a toggle piece for you.

 

[omega2]

I too tried one of those swivels, instead of the old fashioned shackle, it was useless, now gone back to common old shackle much better, although a self launching bow roller would be the ideal solution.

 

[craigsmith]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, good points. One thing I did add was one of those multi-directional hinge things to connect between the eye and the chain. This may have been a mistake as the anchor came up the wrong way when I last weighed.

Also I'm not sure I agree that the windlass can get the anchor off the sea bed. I don't use it for that. I normally motor over the anchor to break it.

Double roller fairleads. I like that idea and I can see it working. Would the front one be set lower than the back one?

[/ QUOTE ]
Double rollers are nice, but not strictly necessary - the idea is to increase the effective radius the chain and then anchor shank is turning over, and the easiest way to accomplish this is a larger radius roller. Most are poorly designed to squeeze in the roller arrangement, and diameters are less than ideal.

Take a look at the Rocna Knowledge Base, regarding bow roller design - the considerations involved are outlined. First few links under "Anchors": www.rocna.com/kb

 

[demonboy]

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty big anchor - you must feel secure in a blow!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll be composing my initial thoughts on our blog. We've been hanging off it for four months now, gusts of up to 50 knots etc etc. Very impressed.

@ Pyro: I don't suppose you have a pic you could post up or email me, have you? It sounds like the solution I need but am struggling to visualise your description (my fault, I'm running around resetting decks fittings at the mo). It would also help me show it to a Turkish s/s welder who speaks no English!

Thanks all.

 

[demonboy]

Craig - I should have contacted you first! I'll check the link now...

 

[pyrojames]

PM sent

 

[AncoraLatina]

[ QUOTE ]
<span style="color:blue">you have a pic you could post up </span>

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[wotayottie]

the bit where the shank gets to the roller and has to be pulled over it is likely to require help unless you have a canting roller. If you think about it, the leverage around the roller will initially be huge. You can sometimes get round this by relying on momentum to carry the anchor upwards far enough for the windlass to handle the load, but often you cant.

The working load will be about 500lbs which is way more than your anchor weighs. This shows that its the angle of pull not the strength of the windlass that is the problem.

 

[silver-fox]

I had exactly the same problem.

I fitted a double roller mounted on a bogey and pivoted around a central bolt. To make room for it, I had the cheeks to my original bow roller fitting extended by having two pieces of stainless welded on and then the new double roller mounted slightly further forward. When deploying and retrieving the anchor the bogey dips to about an angle of 45 degrees making it very willing to self launch and very easy for the windlass to fully retrieve.

I am delighted with the result from a number of perspectives.

1. The anchor windlass no longer stalls at the point where the anchor has to swing to the horizontal.
2. It self launches and self parks every time, meaning that either SWMBO or I can manage it with ease
3. Because the whole arrangement is further forwards than the original set up, the anchor neatly parks itself around the double roller without the fluke of the anchor touching the topsides at all.

I had the thing made in a Spanish machine shop, that did work for the local fishermen, complete with bronze rollers. Can't remember how much it cost, but it didn't make my eyes water, so it couldn't have been much.

If you want a photo I can send you one - I have not posted one as I know you spend time on narrowband!

As a footnote, I get the mickey taken about the size of my anchor and I am a size down from you at 25kg, which is still oversize, according to the charts.

Like you I have never once regretted either my choice of anchor or the the size of it. Lay in my bunk at night listening to wind howling through the rigging as the boat pitches and tosses I never once think "if only I had a smaller cheaper anchor!"

I also have another 20kg one in the stern locker so I can daisy chain them if it gets really horrible - and a kedge anchor as well.

 

[nigelmercier]

[ QUOTE ]
AncoraLatina: Is your new anchor so bad ...

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF?

 

[damo]

CraigSmith is nice and polite, but I could get one of these a bit cheaper (arrived today, yaay!)...

It looks a lot better than one of these, don't you agree? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[AncoraLatina]

[ QUOTE ]


It looks a lot better than one of these, don't you agree? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfectly right.. Looks far much better!..

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[demonboy]

Hey guys, I've asked you already to avoid this kind of $h!t. I'm growing really tired of this anchor [--word removed--] and I'm sure I speak on behalf of other forum users too. I'm especially surprised by Ancoralatina. If you truly are representing a commercial venture then your posts are particularly unbusiness-like and childish. You've certainly lost me as a potential customer. If you want to show off your anchors then start your own thread. Your posts are not helping mine.

It's encouraging to see some people take this subject seriously though, so thank you to everyone else, especially those who have emailed me and PM'd me with your bow-roller plans. I really appreciate it.