Having won the America’s cup....

[flaming]

Does the Solent want or need this? Who benefits? I'm struggling to see how it's good for UK sailors of any kind.

It's already crowded and expensive - both on the water and around the water. Do we want
- 1. A big chunk of Cowes, Southampton or Portsmouth Harbour occupied by syndicate facilities for several years
- 2. An exclusion zone for the period of racing (which will be in July or August, no doubt)
- 3. Thousands of people in the syndicates, the media, the various committees, and VIP guests buying / filling up the limited hotels and rental flats.

It looks to me like a "win" for landowners and, of course, other businesses who will turn a profit by serving the ultra-high-tech end of the sport.

It'll continue the process of making life more expensive and awkward for those of us wanting to potter about or compete at the (somewhat) affordable amateur end, whether XOD, J109, or whatever.

I cannot believe that any other challenger for the cup ever would have such absurd negativity from its home country as illustrated here.

The cup has been going for 170 years, no UK team has ever won it. But sure, let's focus on the perceived downsides of maybe having to avoid some exclusion zones across maybe 20 days of actual racing and "rich people staying in hotel rooms".

Unbelievable.

 

[flaming]

Ah but we make the rules - so we can go back to requiring the challengers to sail from a yard in their own country.

To a point, if you want to deviate from the deed of gift, then you must get the challenger of record to agree. If they don't they always have the option of going "Ok, 90 foot on the waterline, see you in 9 months time".

 

[awol]

Does the Solent want or need this? Who benefits? I'm struggling to see how it's good for UK southern English sailors of any kind.

It's already crowded and expensive - both on the water and around the water. Do we want
- 1. A big chunk of Cowes, Southampton or Portsmouth Harbour occupied by syndicate facilities for several years
- 2. An exclusion zone for the period of racing (which will be in July or August, no doubt)
- 3. Thousands of people in the syndicates, the media, the various committees, and VIP guests buying / filling up the limited hotels and rental flats.

It looks to me like a "win" for landowners and, of course, other businesses who will turn a profit by serving the ultra-high-tech end of the sport.

It'll continue the process of making life more expensive and awkward for those of us wanting to potter about or compete at the (somewhat) affordable amateur end, whether XOD, J109, or whatever.

Fixed that for you. I can't really see a downside with what you describe.

 

[LittleSister]

The cup has been going for 170 years, no UK team has ever won it. But sure, let's focus on the perceived downsides of maybe having to avoid some exclusion zones across maybe 20 days of actual racing and "rich people staying in hotel rooms".

Wouldn't it make it more interesting if there were no exclusion zones, and they had to dodge the ferries, shipping, mobos on autopilot and racing dinghies like the rest of us?

 

[RJJ]

I cannot believe that any other challenger for the cup ever would have such absurd negativity from its home country as illustrated here.

The cup has been going for 170 years, no UK team has ever won it. But sure, let's focus on the perceived downsides of maybe having to avoid some exclusion zones across maybe 20 days of actual racing and "rich people staying in hotel rooms".

Unbelievable.

It's all jolly exciting of course...but what does your cost/benefit analysis look like? More importantly, who has the costs, who has the benefits? For thousands of grassroots sailors, this is cost and aggro, in return for which those of us who are interested get to see the AC raced physically rather than on TV. I'm glad for UK to win, but there's more to life. Hopefully they'll put it in Weymouth instead (sorry, Weymouth people).

the "20 days" of racing - focussed on summer weekends and holidays, that's quite a chunk.

What do you think will be the impact on Solent forumites/grassroots sailors? Maybe you could address the points made, or choose not to respond at all, in preference to being uncivil.

 

[Hermit]

Look at all the negativity there was ahead of the 2012 Olympics. I think its is now very hard to say that, overall, it was a resounding success.

 

[flaming]

It's all jolly exciting of course...but what does your cost/benefit analysis look like? More importantly, who has the costs, who has the benefits? For thousands of grassroots sailors, this is cost and aggro, in return for which those of us who are interested get to see the AC raced physically rather than on TV. I'm glad for UK to win, but there's more to life. Hopefully they'll put it in Weymouth instead (sorry, Weymouth people).

the "20 days" of racing - focussed on summer weekends and holidays, that's quite a chunk.

What do you think will be the impact on Solent forumites/grassroots sailors? Maybe you could address the points made, or choose not to respond at all, in preference to being uncivil.

I think the vast majority of grass roots sailors would be delighted to witness the action. Here's a pic of the spectator fleet when the ACWS came to portsmouth in 2016 to race the AC45s. Imagine the interest if the actual cup came...

And here, by the way, is the exclusion zone for one day of the event. Course size is similar this time round, maybe 1/2 mile longer.

Are you claiming that you would be seriously impacted by that, or are you just being grumpy?

 

[Resolution]

I think the vast majority of grass roots sailors would be delighted to witness the action. Here's a pic of the spectator fleet when the ACWS came to portsmouth in 2016 to race the AC45s. Imagine the interest if the actual cup came...

And here, by the way, is the exclusion zone for one day of the event. Course size is similar this time round, maybe 1/2 mile longer.

Are you claiming that you would be seriously impacted by that, or are you just being grumpy?

Flaming
What depth do the AC45s need for their racing? The AC75s seem to draw about 5 metres with foils down in slow mode, so I would have thought that the only bit of the Solent providing enough depth and space would have been in the Western Solent. An alternative solution suggested previously would be to take them out to the Nab tower (so infamously not rounded in the first race).

 

[Hermit]

Flaming
What depth do the AC45s need for their racing? The AC75s seem to draw about 5 metres with foils down in slow mode, so I would have thought that the only bit of the Solent providing enough depth and space would have been in the Western Solent. An alternative solution suggested previously would be to take them out to the Nab tower (so infamously not rounded in the first race).

But you are assuming it will be the same type of boat? If INEOS win, they set the rules and would be pretty daft to choose a design that wouldn't work in their chosen area to race in.

 

[bedouin]

To a point, if you want to deviate from the deed of gift, then you must get the challenger of record to agree. If they don't they always have the option of going "Ok, 90 foot on the waterline, see you in 9 months time".

Just need to make sure the challenger of record is also Solent based

 

[RJJ]

I think the vast majority of grass roots sailors would be delighted to witness the action. Here's a pic of the spectator fleet when the ACWS came to portsmouth in 2016 to race the AC45s. Imagine the interest if the actual cup came...

And here, by the way, is the exclusion zone for one day of the event. Course size is similar this time round, maybe 1/2 mile longer.

Are you claiming that you would be seriously impacted by that, or are you just being grumpy?

Well, in general, watching sport leaves me a bit cold. I'd always rather be doing it, and if I want to watch I'd rather be comfortably sitting in front of the TV. But each to their own.

If I was Portsmouth-based, that would look like a massive series of headaches.

 

[flaming]

Flaming
What depth do the AC45s need for their racing? The AC75s seem to draw about 5 metres with foils down in slow mode, so I would have thought that the only bit of the Solent providing enough depth and space would have been in the Western Solent. An alternative solution suggested previously would be to take them out to the Nab tower (so infamously not rounded in the first race).

The 5m is only in dock mode. In sailing mode the draft is about 3.5 when off the foils. AC45s probably about 2.5 at a guess.

As to exactly where they would race, who knows? My point was more that the exclusion zone is pretty small and will hardly represent the massive issue that RJJ was claiming for those not interested.

 

[flaming]

Well, in general, watching sport leaves me a bit cold. I'd always rather be doing it, and if I want to watch I'd rather be comfortably sitting in front of the TV. But each to their own.

If I was Portsmouth-based, that would look like a massive series of headaches.

Why? Swashway is kept clear for transiting craft. Only detour necessary at all would be if you wanted to exit Portsmouth and head east. But as stated that is probably not where the racing in AC75s would be.

 

[dunedin]

I cannot believe that any other challenger for the cup ever would have such absurd negativity from its home country as illustrated here.

The cup has been going for 170 years, no UK team has ever won it. But sure, let's focus on the perceived downsides of maybe having to avoid some exclusion zones across maybe 20 days of actual racing and "rich people staying in hotel rooms".

Unbelievable.

Perhaps if the UK did have the opportunity, they could let a number of locations bid to host the event, setting out what facilities (and inevitably financial support) they could offer.
Unquestionably with a bit of imagination there would be better locations than the shallow, busy, tide ridden Solent. As well as Portland and the Clyde (both great sheltered sailing waters and plenty of deep water shore facilities), perhaps Cardiff Bay or Belfast Lough could be options.
With the history of Sir Thomas Lipton’s challenges, and the redevelopment options on the dockyard sites, Belfast Lough could in fact be an ideal venue.
Would certainly resolve any Southern negativity.

 

[flaming]

Perhaps if the UK did have the opportunity, they could let a number of locations bid to host the event, setting out what facilities (and inevitably financial support) they could offer.
Unquestionably with a bit of imagination there would be better locations than the shallow, busy, tide ridden Solent. As well as Portland and the Clyde (both great sheltered sailing waters and plenty of deep water shore facilities), perhaps Cardiff Bay or Belfast Lough could be options.
With the history of Sir Thomas Lipton’s challenges, and the redevelopment options on the dockyard sites, Belfast Lough could in fact be an ideal venue.

To be clear, it is not the UK that has the opportunity to host the cup should INEOS win. It is the winning yacht club, in this case the Royal Yacht Squadron.

Add in the history of the cup, and I think there is a close to 0% chance of the racing being hosted anywhere other than in the Solent or surrounding waters.

 

[awol]

In 2018 the estimate for the Aukland shore-side development was a mere $250M (US), a mere bagatelle for this government, akin to an abortive PPE contract to one of its friends. But, as was said at the beginning of this thread, first the Frackers have to actually win.

 

[flaming]

Just need to make sure the challenger of record is also Solent based

Ah, but can't be from the same country... Need the IOW to declare independence...

 

[dunedin]

To be clear, it is not the UK that has the opportunity to host the cup should INEOS win. It is the winning yacht club, in this case the Royal Yacht Squadron.

Add in the history of the cup, and I think there is a close to 0% chance of the racing being hosted anywhere other than in the Solent or surrounding waters.

Well so far, other than the initial race, there has been 0% involvement of the Solent And in the wider history of Uk challengers, the RYS has had a bit of a variable degree of involvement.
But yes it will be up to any winning team to decide on venues.

 

[flaming]

Well so far, other than the initial race, there has been 0% involvement of the Solent And in the wider history of Uk challengers, the RYS has had a bit of a variable degree of involvement.
But yes it will be up to any winning team to decide on venues.

Getting picky, but no, it isn't up to the winning team. It's up to the winning yacht club. That isn't quite the same.

 

[bedouin]

Ah, but can't be from the same country... Need the IOW to declare independence...

Does that mean that the AC proper can't be raced between two teams from the same country?