Tranona
Well-known member
Prices have just gone up again and close to £7k for the base engine now.
Has anyone renewed there inboard engine recently?
- Thread starter paris
- Start date
Tranona
Well-known member
Then bite the bullet and replace everything at the same time including insulation. You won't regret it. I have re-engined 3 times, first 2 DIY and latest professionally. While you are at it you will need a new propeller and depending on the boat a folding or feathering one is a good long term investment. What boat is it?
B27
Well-known member
But when you come to sell the boat, it's just an ancient engine.
And personally, an engine that's old and hardly used would not fill me with confidence.
ISTM that something like a Beta is a good selling point when you come to sell, but the premium price you will get over a functioning Bukh or is not very much. Boats with decent Betas don't get hugely more money than those with under-powered 1GM10 or similar.
But, if you can afford it, it's nice to have the engine you want. Enough power and as quiet as possible. If the existing doesn't deliver that, then there are worse things to spend your cash on than an upgrade.
It's a lot of cash and time though. If you need a new prop, shaft and ancillaries it runs away.
The issues with the current engine sound fixable, if you can get to the bottom of it.
zoidberg
Well-known member
All the above represent eminently sensible views, but boating is not about eminently sensible....
I acquired a 27' boat with a marinised Kubota tractor engine. It ran, and ran well. However, I posed the question to the 'ould man' everyone pointed me to as 'Mister Kubota'. He pointed out that if it went wrong, I ( or he ) would struggle to get spares for it in a reasonable period. If it was a significant problem, the engine would likely have to come out. Beyond the cost of the spares and the rebuild, there would likely be yard fees.... which have a habit of stretching!
He indicated that such a set of costs could easily run to more than half the cost of a new engine installation.
I bought a Beta 14, removed the old and shoehorned in the new. Solo.... and I still have all my fingers.
n.b. the old Kubota lump weighed about twice what I reckoned. Thanks be that I did a comprehensive 'belt 'n braces' on the hoisting gear. I got £800 for it.
I acquired a 27' boat with a marinised Kubota tractor engine. It ran, and ran well. However, I posed the question to the 'ould man' everyone pointed me to as 'Mister Kubota'. He pointed out that if it went wrong, I ( or he ) would struggle to get spares for it in a reasonable period. If it was a significant problem, the engine would likely have to come out. Beyond the cost of the spares and the rebuild, there would likely be yard fees.... which have a habit of stretching!
He indicated that such a set of costs could easily run to more than half the cost of a new engine installation.
I bought a Beta 14, removed the old and shoehorned in the new. Solo.... and I still have all my fingers.
n.b. the old Kubota lump weighed about twice what I reckoned. Thanks be that I did a comprehensive 'belt 'n braces' on the hoisting gear. I got £800 for it.
penfold
Well-known member
They aren't ancient engines, functionally they're barely run in and they come with a guarantee. 99% of what a new engine offers for maybe 50% of the price. What extra functionality is obtained from the extra thousands spent? What else could the thousands be spent on?
When I browse used boats the only thing I'm interested in is the hours the engine has run, average annual use and what maintenance has been done, the make of engine is of no interest.
Beta are marinised Kubota engines. If it was a particularly old Kubota then it's hard to get parts for because it's old, not because it's a Kubota.
syfuga
Member
I decided that the Bukh DV20 in the Sadler 29 with 3600 hours was probably not a great long term prospect. It had very little compression, and when called upon to change tempo was not particularly responsive. It was all rusty as hell and not been lovingly cared for.
Getting it rebuilt would likely cost a good deal of money that could be spent on a new engine. So in went a Beta 20. It required quite a bit of adjustment: water inlet up to 3/4", water strainer, complete re-wire, new waterlock, engine bed and high rise exhaust modification, and new feathering prop (feathering was optional) and changed the shaft to 25mm from 1", PSS seal in place of the oil seal, etc. so cost a good deal more than the base engine itself.
Getting it rebuilt would likely cost a good deal of money that could be spent on a new engine. So in went a Beta 20. It required quite a bit of adjustment: water inlet up to 3/4", water strainer, complete re-wire, new waterlock, engine bed and high rise exhaust modification, and new feathering prop (feathering was optional) and changed the shaft to 25mm from 1", PSS seal in place of the oil seal, etc. so cost a good deal more than the base engine itself.
Poignard
Well-known member
I suppose my Twister with her 41-year old BUKH DV10 engine would probably fetch £10,000 to £12,000.
The engine is in good condition, burning no oil, and the good compression ensures easy starting.
A new engine, which I don't need, would cost me many thousands of pounds and add little to what I could expect to sell the boat for.
The engine is in good condition, burning no oil, and the good compression ensures easy starting.
A new engine, which I don't need, would cost me many thousands of pounds and add little to what I could expect to sell the boat for.
Tranona
Well-known member
To put things into perspective in terms of "reconditioning" the BUKH compared with a new engine. While I was doing my new engine installation another club member had his Fulmar alongside in the yard have a swap from the original BUKH to an already reconditioned one. His engine cost £3000 exchange for his old one, roughly half the price of a new Beta 20 at the time. All his other costs for the professional installation were similar to mine. New exhaust, new fuel pipes, new water pipes, some replacement wiring cleaning the engine bay and replacing the insulation.
Essentially the saving is about £3k on a £9-10k job. There are swings and roundabouts. New engine needs modified mounts and a new propeller but up to £1k for old BUKH more than offsets this. The only way to save real money is on labour which is typically £2k by DIY
Essentially the saving is about £3k on a £9-10k job. There are swings and roundabouts. New engine needs modified mounts and a new propeller but up to £1k for old BUKH more than offsets this. The only way to save real money is on labour which is typically £2k by DIY
morgandlm
Active member
I changed my Bukh DV10 for a Beta 14 earlier this year. I loved the old Bukh but it let me down for the first time last year and I discovered that the cost of a full rebuild was about half the cost of a new Beta 14. The new engine has completely revolutionised the boat .... quieter, smoother, more responsive and more power. I only wish I'd done it sooner.
David Morgan
David Morgan
Stemar
Well-known member
Another vote for if it ain't broke, but that niggling doubt could be assuaged, at least in part, by opening a savings account and setting up a standing order so the money's building up, just in case.
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
They mostly sell refurbished ships lifeboats engines converted from keel cooling to fresh water and heat exchange cooling. Good to deal with but the one I got from them had issues
zoidberg
Well-known member
"Beta are marinised Kubota engines. If it was a particularly old Kubota then it's hard to get parts for because it's old, not because it's a Kubota." - Penfold#25
That's exactly why I sought the advice of the most experienced Kubota specialist engineer in the region - 'Old Man Hurley' - whose business just happened to be across town nearby. It was a 'balanced judgement' where the prospect of a reducing reliability and being stuck perhaps for months in some out-of-the-way boatyard while a Europe-wide search went on for an obscure gasket or a used part from a scrapyard. That didn't appeal.
The 'clincher' was my awareness of Beta Marine's truly excellent service when contacted for guidance, spares, add-ons. They're superb....
That's exactly why I sought the advice of the most experienced Kubota specialist engineer in the region - 'Old Man Hurley' - whose business just happened to be across town nearby. It was a 'balanced judgement' where the prospect of a reducing reliability and being stuck perhaps for months in some out-of-the-way boatyard while a Europe-wide search went on for an obscure gasket or a used part from a scrapyard. That didn't appeal.
The 'clincher' was my awareness of Beta Marine's truly excellent service when contacted for guidance, spares, add-ons. They're superb....
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
We had an old Bukh20. Leaked oil and surveyor reckoned forward clutch slipping or at least not catching quickly. Sellers engineer denied this at Emsworth but surveyor was right so knocked price down expecting refurb to be simple. Our engineer then said the parts would be £2k to £2.5k alone and he would warrantee it for 3 months or as far as the open sea, whichever came earlier, and I should just buy a new one even though he would lose work on the suggestion
We mostly loved our Beta25 replacement though purchase and fitting was £7k. However its got car type clutch plate, which has friction plate that wears and fails in the way that car clutches do - unlike metal cone clutch on most marine engines - and ours failed after 18months and clutches are not in warrantee. Kubota based engines good. Their TCM twin disk gearboxes sh*t
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Tranona
Well-known member
Having some or all of the money for a new engine in the bank does not really help if you break down at sea.
There are really only 3 rational courses of action. First is to carry on and deal with the problems of the current engine as they arise. This is what many people do. Second is to try and pre-empt problems by having the existing engine removed and "reconditioned". However as many have pointed out, although this is about half the cost of a new base engine, much of the work in terms of labour and replacement of all the associated bits that are equally old is much the same as fitting new. Last, taking it all out and starting again. Obviously the most costly, but if you intend keeping and using the boat for a number of years the payback is increased reliability and a better, quieter, smoother ride plus the possibility in this case of easier fitment of hot water and greater alternator charging capacity.
Engines are consumables and do not last forever and at least one owner in a boat's lifespan is faced with this decision. By buying a boat with a 40 year old engine you stand a very high chance of being that lucky owner.
Rappey
Well-known member
My morris (bmc 1.5) is 58 years old. It was rebuilt around 1983 when it was removed from a J4 van and has been reliably running in my boat ever since.
All parts are available at very cheap prices. If mine died a horrible death i would rebuild or replace it with another bmc.
Its not the lightest or quietest but its very economical and in my 30 yrs of ownership has only cost me a starter motor and fuel lift pump, plus servicing parts.
Tranona
Well-known member
That is a very rare situation and not relevant to the vast majority of under 32' or so boats from 40 years ago that were fitted with Volvo, BUKH or Yanmar diesels under 30hp. Most small marine engines die of neglect, either in their pattern of usage or maintenance and are either not suitable for rebuilding or spares are either difficult to obtain or expensive (or both).
Poignard
Well-known member
vyv_cox
Well-known member
I replaced a 20 year old Bukh 20 that ran OK but not perfectly. I was about to retire and become a live aboard, so a new engine seemed like a good investment. The replacement was a Yanmar 3GM30F, quieter, smoother, 100kg lighter and a foot lower. 2800 hours later I know I made the right decision.
paris
Member
Thanks all, got a ballpark figure for a beta from a dealer, so I will squirrel a few pennes away each month for it
bignick
Active member
It sounds like your mind is made up to replace your engine with a new Beta, which if you are going to re-engine is a good choice.
Don’t forget to try to sell your old one before you have the new one fitted though.
Not everyone wants to, or can afford to, fit a new engine, so there may be a pretty good market for your existing one. Take plenty of video of it starting and running and make sure it is removed carefully and treated kindly. I’m sure other people on here can recommend companies that would make you an offer, or you could just advertise on eBay etc.
Don’t forget to try to sell your old one before you have the new one fitted though.
Not everyone wants to, or can afford to, fit a new engine, so there may be a pretty good market for your existing one. Take plenty of video of it starting and running and make sure it is removed carefully and treated kindly. I’m sure other people on here can recommend companies that would make you an offer, or you could just advertise on eBay etc.