Has anyone regretted stepping off the wondrous property ladder?

[cimota]

Love this thread. I'm stepping off the property ladder for the second time (and not by choice). Gives me opportunity to pursue my liveaboard and wanderlust while I gird my loins for perhaps a third entry to the property ladder.

It's that time of life where you're kinda wishing the UK chancellor would increase the pension age to 85 and be done with it. It would give me time to pay off another mortgage.

 

[KellysEye]

>UK income is taxed somewhere (usually, but not exclusively afaik, in the UK).

Jane and I were both not resident and not ordinarily resident for tax, we paid UK tax on rental income for two properties. We moved our money offshore and paid no tax on interest. However don't use a European offshore account now, after we came back they implemented a 30% withholding tax on any income.

 

[Neeves]

Sadly unless you have rather large amounts of cash then interest is paltry to non-existent and the tax revenue is but a shadow of its former self. Tax on interest is now an insignificant issue for most, unlike the good old days when interest could be 20$.

Jonathan

 

[Sarnia]

In common with a lot of people we will need to sell our house before we can become liveaboards. Quite a few of the naysayers are predicting gloom/doom/the end of the world if we do anything as radical as selling our house and stepping off the property ladder. I've tended to find that when we tell people our plans they either think its a great idea, or they get very naysayery.

I was just wondering to what extent their gloomy predictions are correct in practice? For those of you who have lived on board for a while, would you consider going back to bricks and mortar? Did those of you that went back to living on land regret stepping off the property ladder or did you find that your priorities had changed, and so you were happy to live in a simpler way anyway?

Personally, I don't enjoy home ownership so if I could sell our house tomorrow I'd be delighted. It goes on the market in January and I can't wait to get shot of it (not least because once it is sold we can get our Prout and head off!

No never.

 

[neil1967]

Interesting that many people seem to think it is a case of living aboard or owning a house, and that if you 'sell up and sail' you'll have a problem when you eventually need to take to the land again. What is wrong with renting? We own our own yacht (but not 'our' house) and when I retire in 4-5 years time, we intend to liveaboard. We recognize in 10-20 years we'll probably want to have a less energetic lifestyle, but by that stage (late 60s/early 70s) we won't need a big house, so what is wrong with planning to rent?

 

[Koeketiene]

Interesting that many people seem to think it is a case of living aboard or owning a house, and that if you 'sell up and sail' you'll have a problem when you eventually need to take to the land again. What is wrong with renting? We own our own yacht (but not 'our' house) and when I retire in 4-5 years time, we intend to liveaboard. We recognize in 10-20 years we'll probably want to have a less energetic lifestyle, but by that stage (late 60s/early 70s) we won't need a big house, so what is wrong with planning to rent?

I know how much my (index linked) pension will be. Rent prices seem to go only one way - up! And they seem to rise far faster than inflation.
I may not be able to afford to rent in 10-15 years or whenever we move back ashore. Then what?

 

[RAI]

I may not be able to afford to rent in 10-15 years or whenever we move back ashore. Then what?

Do you have to rent in the UK?

 

[GrahamM376]

Do you have to rent in the UK?

What happens when you become infirm? The last place I want to wind up in is a Portuguese rest home and state care there for the elderly isn't good. Generally up to you to pay for a carer, we've been down that route with both SWMBO's parents over the last few years.

 

[Richard10002]

I know how much my (index linked) pension will be. Rent prices seem to go only one way - up! And they seem to rise far faster than inflation.
I may not be able to afford to rent in 10-15 years or whenever we move back ashore. Then what?

I've been renting out flats in M16 since 2001. The other week I had cause to check the rents I was getting in 2004 and 2005. They were about 10% less than they are now.

10% in over ten years doesn't seem too extravagant... or is that the extortionate rise that people are complaining about.

 

[Budgieboy]

I've been renting out flats in M16 since 2001. The other week I had cause to check the rents I was getting in 2004 and 2005. They were about 10% less than they are now.

10% in over ten years doesn't seem too extravagant... or is that the extortionate rise that people are complaining about.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...ous-property-ladder/page9#8xxhJL1I8iwMjip1.99

And in the South East they would have nearly doubled in that time ......

 

[Jegs]

I've been renting out flats in M16 since 2001. The other week I had cause to check the rents I was getting in 2004 and 2005. They were about 10% less than they are now.

10% in over ten years doesn't seem too extravagant... or is that the extortionate rise that people are complaining about.

Beau Brummel resigned his commision when his regiment was transferred from Brighton [?] & reputedly explained to the Prince Regent "imagine your majesty, Manchester!"

ATB,

John G

 

[Squeaky]

Good evening;

There seems to two threads in one running here - one side cautioning against selling property and the other seeming to suggest that they are going to sell prior to becoming liveaboards. I doubt that any from either side will be convinced by the points raised by the other side however I would like add my voice to those cautioning against selling.

Over the past thirty some years of living and cruising in the Eastern Med I have seen a lot of people arrive full of enthusiasm for their live aboard life style however I have seen almost as many forced to give it up for numerous unexpected reasons. In some cases it was because the wives decided that they wanted to return to a more settled convenient lifestyle especially if there are now grand children. In other cases it was due to infirmities associated with increasing age or other medical problems - as someone above mentioned one would not want to require a care home in most countries surrounding the Med. It seems that a good care home is even difficult to find in the UK.

Another problem is frequently inflation coupled with a decreasing bank accounts making it difficult to maintain a decent standard of living afloat - having to spend the winter at anchor or in a poor quality marina cum boatyard because of finance is not something that many elderly people would look forward to - especially wives.

I think one must plan on the fact that eventually they will wish to return to shore based life in familiar surrounding and among friends and family.

It just does not seem to make sense to sell an asset that one has spent a life time acquiring to fund a change of life style assuming that they will want to spent the rest of their life enjoying this new life style. I guess it would make sense if one knew when their time would be up but many people live to a ripe old age these days and I believe one has to make plans that they will be lucky and live to an age when their physical and mental abilities slowly deteriorate making life as a life aboard less desirable.

Someone mentioned renting or living aboard above - well, surprisingly I have met many who have purchased property aboard who eventually suffer from many of the same problems associated with old age making a return to the UK necessary and desirable.

I suggest that if you have property that you do everything to keep it while off cruising because sure as God made little apples you will not be able to purchase anything near as nice because of increases in the cost of property - houses increase in value, yachts decrease in value even if you can sell which is a problem affecting many just now. I have noticed the price of some yachts for sale in this area being lowered by 20/25 per cent and still not being sold.

I wish everyone a long and happy life afloat and hope that they have made plans when it becomes desirable to return to life ashore.

Cheers

Squeaky

 

[GrahamM376]

I suggest that if you have property that you do everything to keep it while off cruising because sure as God made little apples you will not be able to purchase anything near as nice because of increases in the cost of property - houses increase in value, yachts decrease in value even if you can sell which is a problem affecting many just now. I have noticed the price of some yachts for sale in this area being lowered by 20/25 per cent and still not being sold.

House price inflation is the problem. We moved to N Wales in 2000, bought a new 4 bed detached for £110,000 cash (bank were chasing builder) then sold in 2009 for £285,000 and downsized to 2 bed bungalow which we just leave empty when away. No way can bank deposits return enough interest to cover that type of price hike and we're too old now to risk the stock market due to length of time recovery can take if there's another crash. Friends who have returned to the UK after long periods away, find they score less points than immigrants on the council housing list so are stuck paying rent to private landlords. My recommendation would be to think very carefully before selling up.

 

[KellysEye]

One thought is there is a new forecast of property prices - they will increase by 50% in the next 10 years. If that comes about then anyone selling house now would find buying a house in ten years time impossible.

 

[Budgieboy]

One thought is there is a new forecast of property prices - they will increase by 50% in the next 10 years. If that comes about then anyone selling house now would find buying a house in ten years time impossible.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...us-property-ladder/page10#5QZrjYf2XmREsBMi.99

The 50 o/o quoted in the press and TV yesterday was for the UK ...... They estimate a doubling of house prices in London and the South East ....... That given nobody that sells up and sails is going to be able to get back onto the housing ladder , taking in the general age of the forum that is .... ��

 

[Strolls]

One thought is there is a new forecast of property prices - they will increase by 50% in the next 10 years. If that comes about then anyone selling house now would find buying a house in ten years time impossible.

I couldn't quickly find a 10 year chart for a UK index, so perhaps it would not show a similar gain?

 

[charles_reed]

If I might point out a basic fallacy (which doesn't invalidate the answers).
Rather than property prices doubling, it would be more correct to forecast a halving in the value of money. One of the concomitants, I'm afraid, of marginal reserve banking.
Since 2008 there have been various tinkering around the edges of commercial banks' ability to, effectively, print money but we're still lumbered with the system.
That effectively means that those closest to the money print machine, (bankers and those in financial services), get the use of the cash (at the current value) long before those at the bottom of the chain get the use of the devalued currency.
The original question, about the property ladder needs to be considerably amplified.

As Picketty et al, researched and proved, unto those that have is given and from those that don't have is taken, especially in times of peace, unless there are step-changes in economic factors.

ANYTHING is better than cash as a savings reserve - how about a pair of Margaret Thatcher's drawers?

 

[Budgieboy]

A halving of monetary value would do nothing for my situation .... If I stay in the property fold and it doubles in value so will rent roughly , this meaning that my situation stays stable and if I return to landlubbing it is a smooth process ... Hence I will not be leaving the property ladder ... ��

 

[Koeketiene]

If I stay in the property fold and it doubles in value so will rent roughly

Property and rent prices are a fickle thing. There is often a big difference between what estate agents and baks say is the right price and what the market considers to be the right price.

Example:
In April our landlord informed us that he wanted to increase our rent at the end of our contract by 30% to stay in line with property and market prices. He said that he had been advised by the letting agency that such an increase was warranted. We were unwilling to pay such a large rent hike and that we would move out at the end of our contract in August. From early May the property was listed with several estate agents at the new price. Exactly zero enquiries.

In September, the landlord put the property up for sale. It's still for sale - and has already dropped in price once.

 

[charles_reed]

Property and rent prices are a fickle thing. There is often a big difference between what estate agents and baks say is the right price and what the market considers to be the right price.

Example:
In April our landlord informed us that he wanted to increase our rent at the end of our contract by 30% to stay in line with property and market prices. He said that he had been advised by the letting agency that such an increase was warranted. We were unwilling to pay such a large rent hike and that we would move out at the end of our contract in August. From early May the property was listed with several estate agents at the new price. Exactly zero enquiries.

In September, the landlord put the property up for sale. It's still for sale - and has already dropped in price once.

Just as one swallow doth not a summer make, one example of a greedy landlord getting his come-uppance doesn't prove the model is broken.
Property, in the UK, will approximately keep its value - everything else will fall in true value. Or so it has done until now.
However we MAY be in a genuine game change situation - there are signs that the growth all central bankers have expected from the economies of the world for the last 80 years - MAY have come to the end of the road and all we can expect in future is stasis.
In which case, turning your bricks and mortar into something you can enjoy, might be a shrewd Epicurean move.
But a truly massive act of faith.
For me there's no problem, I own my house and live in it, I own my boat and spend 6 months a year on it, no expectation of an investment return, I just enjoy that which I enjoy.