Ground tackle for Isles of Scilly

[chris-s]

Carefully disguised as an anchor question, lets hope we can keep this short and simple!

We have a little 24 foot Pegasus 700 bilge keeler out of Falmouth that we are hoping to go to the islands in the next month if the weather looks good. Our current ground tackle consists of 16lb CQR, 10 meters 8mm chain and 20 meters of rope. To date, our only anchoring experience has been in mud where it has stuck like the proverbial.

All things being well, we would only expect to stay a couple of days, and whilst there are options like drying out, mooring buoys I'd lie to be prepared anchor wise. So any sensible advice on the suitability of our existing ground tackle or suggested options greatfully appreciated.

Chris

 

[Boathook]

Try it in sand before going. I suspect that you will be fine but a bit limited with anchorages with such a small scope and ideally requiring at least a 4 to 1 ratio. This means around 7m depth at high water. Personally I equate depth being from bow roller to seabed.

 

[seumask]

IMHO you will probably able to manage with what you have, in fair weather in a tide range of about 5m and anchoring usually in sandy bottoms reasonably close to the beach, ie 2m at low water and 7m at high water. However if it was me I'd like a newer generation anchor like the 10 kg delta or newer with 30m of chain and 30m of rope, that would give me more comfort in difficult conditions. One of the great advatages of your boat being bilge keel in the scillies is that you will have lots of beaching options in some of the more remote areas.

 

[Boathook]

IMHO you will probably able to manage with what you have, in fair weather in a tide range of about 5m and anchoring usually in sandy bottoms reasonably close to the beach, ie 2m at low water and 7m at high water. However if it was me I'd like a newer generation anchor like the 10 kg delta or newer with 30m of chain and 30m of rope, that would give me more comfort in difficult conditions. One of the great advatages of your boat being bilge keel in the scillies is that you will have lots of beaching options in some of the more remote areas.

If the OP goes for new chain I would go down to 6mm in size for a 24 footer.

 

[Roberto]

You might as well tie 20ish additional meters of rope to your current rode to have more flexibility with anchorage depth, most probably you will not be testing your anchor line in a storm...

 

[Neeves]

I would urge caution.

You mention 'our' so more than just you and if the 'our' includes a partner then you want this to be a success - or it will be difficult to persuade them for a second foray. It is very easy to give 'anchoring' a band name. So heed the collective advise and try not to skimp.

Look on ebay for modern anchors (or the for sale ads on YBW), specifically a Fortress (you really should carry a spare) and other modern designs - Rocna, Supreme, Excel, Kobra, Spade or Knox and personally I'd buy one of them new if you cannot find one for sale, privately.. If you are cash short then Kobra is a very good option (and I suspect the cheapest decent anchor you can buy 'off the shelf'). As mentioned I'd ditch the 8mm length of chain and replace with 6mm and I'd want to carry a longer length of rope to augment the 6mm.

I don't know the area and you will get more focussed advice from those who have been there.

Once you have the ground tackle sorted out, or as you are sorting it out, I might start a second thread for advise on which anchorage might best suit whatever the wind conditions might be.

Getting the ground tackle right and knowing the best anchorages offers the best opportunity this will be the first of many successful passages - together.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

 

[Kinsale373]

I agree with Roberto, the most economical answer is to have an extra 30 meters of warp to add to existing tackle. If you have the room this will greatly decrease the chance of the chain raising off the bottom in a blow with some waves.
I've anchored along the South Coast of Ireland for years in Mud /Sand generally in 2m at low water. I never liked the CQR as it often failed to set for me. I have always changed over to a Bruce for the main anchor the this has never failed me. If I was spending money I,d definately go over to a "New Tech" Rochna or Lewmar.

What I've done for years is to Double anchor in Bad Weather. I carry a "Kedge"- Slightly smaller than the main anchor with 10m of 10 mil chain and 20M Warp. I shackle the end this approx a meter back along the chain from the main anchor, drop it an pull in . Then I drop the main Anchor and pull this in and leave out appropriate scope. This way I have two Anchors in Series. I tested this in some bad weather in West Cork over the years and it worked well. At worst the 2nd anchor works as a damper on the line but if you're careful laying them out they both dig in well . Mine have both come up covered in Mud an Sand always. Ive never had a tangle on the Anchors and have left a boat like this for a week. ( I wouldnt do that again! but at the time I had no choice )
You'll find slightly different versions of this technique on the Web ,.
You might be able to borrow a 2nd Anchor from someone for the trip!

Enjoy the trip!

 

[vyv_cox]

In about 1992 our club took a summer cruise to the Scillies. Five boats went. While there we experienced an easterly gale, which we sat out in New Grimsby for three or four nights. There were very few moorings there at that time and we all anchored. Between us we carried 2 X CQR, 2 X Bruce and 1 X Delta on boats ranging from 29 to 50 ft. Despite anchoring in very deep weed none of us dragged.

Also in the anchorage were many French boats, almost all of which dragged. We sat anchor watches for two nights and watched several boats motor the whole night while others tried repeatedly to set anchors in the most ridiculous fashion.

It was brought home to me most forcefully that the equipment used is far less important than the technique.

 

[jdc]

I also agree with Roberto (edit: and Vyv). The anchorages in the IoS are pretty benign as far as holding goes and a CQR will be fine. Of course a modern anchor is nice (I have a 16kg Delta to give away / indefinite loan here in Falmouth btw) but in the old days I used a cqr and was perfectly happy.

You will possibly be anchoring in 7 or 8 metres at HW so would probably like at least 36 m of scope in normal winds with another 20 available if it blows hard so a bit more than you have will be useful. Good anchorages for you will be the Cove between St Agnes and Gugh, Old Grimsby, Off the heliport on Tresco (drying out on clean sand in Appletree Bay), NE side of Samson inside Puffin Island , Porth Cressa on St Mary's, Great Bay N of St Martin's and St Helen's pool, but there are scores available, esp as you can dry out comfortably.

If a spring gale is forecast go and pick up a mooring: probbaly there will be loads available in Old Grimsby - which I prefer to New Grimsby anyway - or sit it out in St Helen's Pool where the holding is excellent albeit a little bouncy at HW in a NW gale. I spent a gale there in my Sadler 29 on a 32lb CQR some 25+ years ago and thought myself perfectly safe.

Go and have fun and maybe we'll see you there; we went for the May BH and intend to go again for the Jubilee.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

CQR does not dig in straight away, so make sure that the anchor has dug in and is holding and reverse using the engine to ensure it is holding.

 

[jdc]

Possibly worth adding the getting there and back aspects: you may chose to break the journey part way. Useful passage anchorages are:
E of Lizard
Coverack (sheltered from SW to N).
Carrick Lûz (sheltered NW to NE, so more useful on the return: we often creep in after dark, esp if late on the tide, to avoid a slog uphill to Falmouth).
Church Cove (sheltered SW to NW. Perfect jumping off point shaving nearly 3hrs off the passage).
W of Lizard
Mullion Cove (sheltered SE through E to N. Good if against the wind on the return.)
Mousehole between the harbour and St Clement's Island (sheltered from wind W through NW. Not v sheltered from swell but it's 1/2 way so useful in quiet weather).

In all cases it's anchor in 6m or so on sand with good holding so rather similar requirements to the IoS. There seems to be quite a bit more weed around this year but more sea lettuce than kelp.

You can of course go into Newlyn, but it does add considerably to the total distance and thus journey time so instead keep that as a back up if caught out.

 

[chris-s]

Many thanks for the great replies. I'm not adverse to buying a more modern anchor, I was already looking at a 10kg Delta and a Fortress FX7 as well as some extra chain and rode so you guys pretty much confirmed my thoughts. I'd rather be over-prepared than not.

Also, thanks for the anchoring tips, I've got charts and pilotage guide tho would like to find a copy of ScillyPetes guide.

JDC - we might very well see you there as that is the same week we are hoping to be there!

 

[roaringgirl]

You don't mention if you have a windlass, so I'm assuming not. In this case going down a chain size and getting a lighter, modern anchor will make your job easier. I would go for a fortress as they are so light for the good holding they provide. Also, get some more rode so that your choices aren't limited. If you're going to use the CQR make sure it is properly power-set as I've swum through anchorages seeing them not set at all, only stopping the boat moving by their weight.

 

[chris-s]

You don't mention if you have a windlass, so I'm assuming not. In this case going down a chain size and getting a lighter, modern anchor will make your job easier. I would go for a fortress as they are so light for the good holding they provide. Also, get some more rode so that your choices aren't limited. If you're going to use the CQR make sure it is properly power-set as I've swum through anchorages seeing them not set at all, only stopping the boat moving by their weight.

Definitely no windlass!
I’m not sure about coming down to 6mm chain tho, that seems a bit light but at the same time adding an extra load of 8mm up front in a small boat isn’t always ideal either. Rode is not a problem.

 

[Iliade]

I've always found the best solution to be to dig a hole, throw the anchor in and backfill... Not actually a daft idea with bilge keels on sand if wind is forecast.

You do want a good kedge and maybe a spare further out to hold off the beach when refloating & raising anchor.

I'm not planning on going anywhere distant until July so you are welcome to borrow a fortress if you're passing Shoreham.

 

[Beneteau381]

Carefully disguised as an anchor question, lets hope we can keep this short and simple!

We have a little 24 foot Pegasus 700 bilge keeler out of Falmouth that we are hoping to go to the islands in the next month if the weather looks good. Our current ground tackle consists of 16lb CQR, 10 meters 8mm chain and 20 meters of rope. To date, our only anchoring experience has been in mud where it has stuck like the proverbial.

All things being well, we would only expect to stay a couple of days, and whilst there are options like drying out, mooring buoys I'd lie to be prepared anchor wise. So any sensible advice on the suitability of our existing ground tackle or suggested options greatfully appreciated.

Chris

A lot of people park between bryer and tresco, Buoys there with a man who comes in a boat every day for dosh, used to be pay for two get one free?
Anchoring,lots of weed there, you haveto get the hook through that. Once set its ok

 

[Boathook]

Definitely no windlass!
I’m not sure about coming down to 6mm chain tho, that seems a bit light but at the same time adding an extra load of 8mm up front in a small boat isn’t always ideal either. Rode is not a problem.

6mm G40 is more than strong enough for your boat imho. I was looking at 6mm G70 chain for my boat but changing the windlass, etc meant it wouldn't happen.

 

[Neeves]

The idea of using heavier chain, in this case 8mm, has all developed round the idea one wants the rode to be as close to horizontal as possible. This may have been a good option for older anchors but modern anchors, Rocna, Kobra, Supreme, Fortress, Excel, Viking, Spade (but not Delta) all will work satisfactorily at a 3:1 scope, though more scope is better. The concept of heavy chain has thus been overtaken by better, much better, anchors. If you are hand retrieving 6mm chain would be easier (though as the anchor is going to be small not such an issue) than 8mm chain. Weight in the bow is a different issue and all yachts will respond better to less weight in the ends. Smaller chain takes up less room.

I am involved in the manufacture of high tensile small link sized rodes and have just supplied a 6mm rode to a couple from France, replaces 8mm - no windlass (10kg Spade), 7.7m, bilge keeled, yacht. Into the wind | La vie au fil de l'eau et du vent. This website should be inspiration for anyone considering cruising a small yacht. I'm supplying a 8mm rode replacing a 10mm rode for another couple, from the UK, also half way round the world. Locally I've supplied a 6mm rode for a 50' trimaran (replaces 8mm), a 8mm rode replaces 10mm on a 43' Ovni, supplied 8mm instead of 10mm on a new build 50' cat and we use 6mm on our 38' cat.

There have been a number of threads on YBW where members have mentioned they survived strong wind events at scope of 3:1 (I recall one might have been 2.5:1) when through error they deployed the incorrect length of rode.

Enough cautionary comment is being made of a CQR such that I hope the OP takes note and replaces it with something 'better' and if you are going to replace then the Delta option looks questionable - look at the other anchors in my list. This is going to be your 'forever' anchor - you will not be anchoring in nice clean sand every day. Most people here who now use one of those anchors on my list retired either a CQR, Delta or Bruce - just consider why they changed. Also consider - people replace their old style anchors because the older styles was not good enough - if it was not good enough then its also not good enough as a spare anchor. Ditch the CQR. If you want to carry ballast - make sure its useful ballast!

Whilst anchoring technique is important most modern anchors, those on my list , are very forgiving and will engage with the seabed, set and hold without 20 years of anchoring knowledge - they are fairly fool proof and reward the investment made.

In my list I exclude the Epsilon as I have no experience and there have been no enthusiastic reports of performance. I also exclude the Ultra, on cost grounds - a perfectly good anchor - but gloriously expensive and I exclude Mantus as it sets very shallow and is simply badly designed. But my list covers a whole host of designs - enough choice for any or everyone.

But consider - no anchor is perfect, they are all a compromise.

Kobra and Viking are the cheapest, I think - the others are all quite pricey - unless you can find someone selling privately.

For size of anchor - look at the suppliers spread sheets - and follow them.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

 

[oldbloke]

Generally speaking, and especially with a small boat, there's not much point in going to the Ilses of Scilly unless the weather is good and settled. As such you are likely to find that a brick on the end of a piece of string will be entirely adequate.
Ps, similar applies for going round the Lizard on the way. If its horrid and dangerous, you won't be going.

 

[LittleSister]

I agree with those who are saying a CQR will be fine (so long as the hinge is not greatly worn), and that you should check it's set by using reverse motor. I say that as someone who's been to the Isles of Scilly in a 22 footer with a CQR, 10m of chain and a long nylon warp.

I definitely think you should have greater total length of warp than you have, but you could tie an additional length on what you have. Better still buy a single long nylon warp to join to your existing chain. (Small boats often don't have room in the chain locker for a good length to be all chain, and anyway a lot of chain weight right at the the end of a small boat is undesirable.)

If you are going to splash out on new chain, 6mm is plenty for your boat. It is easily strong enough, and the value of added weight is a myth, as Neeve explains.

If you want to splash out on a new generation anchor, then why not?