Greek flagged but British owned boats

[pmartin127]

I am really sorry if this has been raised already but I have been placed in an awkward situation which needs addressing within the next week so don't have the time to do searches.

I ( as a Brit ) own a boat in the Ionian. It is Greek flagged and is loaned to a charter company via a Greek sole-trader company. This situation has worked well for the last 6 years or so.
There are several of us in the same situation.

We have suddenly been told that post-B we (as Brits) can no longer own Greek flagged boats.

Apparently a new company (IKE) has to be set up. The boat has to be sold to that new company but prior to that an amount of capital equalling the insured value of the boat has to be
put into the company. The company then buys the boat from the owner who then gets their money back.

A couple of things concern me - one being the transfer of ownership to a Greek company (of which I will be the sole shareholder and therefore technically still own the boat) but also
the amount of capital (£100k) that needs to be raised to put into the new company.

I am hoping that someone with a better knowledge of EU/Greek legislation might be able to confirm or otherwise whether this is the case and perhaps offer alternatives.

many thanks
Phil

 

[PlanB]

I have tried and failed to find a link on here, but around B......t, there was really helpful information from a Greek Marine Lawyer called Alex. Hopefully someone on here will remember him.

 

[pmartin127]

Thanks for that PlanB

 

[PlanB]

Sorry, complete false memory syndrome. He's Spanish.
However, if you google Greek Private boat ownership, there are a few hits includng advisers who may be able to help you.


For future reference|:
Alex Chumillas
Tax Marine
Marina Port Vell
C/Escar, 18
08039 Barcelona
+34 667 663 521
+34 932 218 201
Website: www.taxmarine.com
Email: alex@taxmarine.com

 

[pmartin127]

Thanks once again PlanB - will do as you suggest.

 

[westernman]

You can create a company in Greece with 1 euro capital.
My company (value some 100s Million Euros) created an IKE in Greece with 10K euros capital.

This might be of use:-
Establish a Private Company (IKE) in Greece | Atlas Consulting.

You don't need the Greek company to buy the boat off you - you can transfer the ownership to the Greek company.
You can also declare the capital of the Greek company to be the value of the boat, and then you transfer ownership of the boat to the Greek company essentially "paying in" the capital you declared.

Of course if you stop the chartering side of things you could just register the boat on the SSR.
(Greek charter boats have to be Greek registered).

 

[pmartin127]

Many thanks westernman - some good things to think about.
I notice you say your location is Costa Brava. Does that mean you have residency in the EU which might have made creating a Greek company easier?
Don't want to stop the chartering side of things just yet as I don't have the time to use her properly and I don't want her sitting around.

 

[westernman]

Many thanks westernman - some good things to think about.
I notice you say your location is Costa Brava. Does that mean you have residency in the EU which might have made creating a Greek company easier?
Don't want to stop the chartering side of things just yet as I don't have the time to use her properly and I don't want her sitting around.

I have been resident in France for a long time. I kept my boat on the Costa Brava, but sold it about one year ago.

But as far as I am aware, neither my residency nor that of the French company which was to be 100% owner of the Greek company seems to have had any impact. They need to know the identities of everyone involved of course. This is in part due to EU rules about net beneficiaries which the UK wanted to avoid signing up to which might have been one of the real reasons for that which cannot be mentioned here.
It was very straightforward - although we were paying a Greek accountancy firm to do it for us.

Italy is much harder. I have just come back from there move the company's bank account to another bank as the current bank was a real PITA for paying employees' salaries each month. This involved going with my co-CEO in France, the director of the Italian subsidiary and the accountant to a notary agent to sign various documents. Then to the bank. The bank took 2.5 hours to get through the documents to sign. Several inches thick. I had to sign in a few places, my co-CEO who would be largely responsible for operating the account had to sign in about 25 different places. This also involved installing the banks app on his mobile phone and about 25 SMS with codes to communicate with the person setting up the account.

 

[Kukri]

This probably isn’t helpful but I do recall that the majority of the beneficial ownership of a Greek ship must be Greek.

 

[newtothis]

This probably isn’t helpful but I do recall that the majority of the beneficial ownership of a Greek ship must be Greek.

That seems to be the case in most instances, but from a quick scan i did find one Greece-flagged Lemos suezmax where the beneficial owner is the UK-registered company.
Maybe having a Greek principal is sufficient to make it Greek in Greek eyes?

 

[Kukri]

That seems to be the case in most instances, but from a quick scan i did find one Greece-flagged Lemos suezmax where the beneficial owner is the UK-registered company.
Maybe having a Greek principal is sufficient to make it Greek in Greek eyes?

That’s fine; the owning company can have bearer shares and a registered office at 80, Broad Street, Monrovia, as long as it can produce a certificate from the Union of Greek Shipowners stating that « The beneficial owners of this ship are known to us and they are Greek ».

 

[newtothis]

That’s fine; the owning company can have bearer shares and a registered office at 80, Broad Street, Monrovia, as long as it can produce a certificate from the Union of Greek Shipowners stating that « The beneficial owners of this ship are known to us and they are Greek ».

Ah, got it now. Good thing they only have to be 'known to us' or there'd be all sorts of hell [tax] to pay.
Fortunately, there are only four boxships under the Greek flag so I've never had to go down this rabbit hole.

 

[Kukri]

Ah, got it now. Good thing they only have to be 'known to us' or there'd be all sorts of hell [tax] to pay.
Fortunately, there are only four boxships under the Greek flag so I've never had to go down this rabbit hole.

Captain Costacopoulos isn’t a great fan of the Greek Flag!

As rabbit holes go, it’s not a bad one. It’s well supplied with March Hares, Mad Hatters, Red Queens, Mock Turtles, White Rabbits and even the occasional Dormouse, and everybody is within two degrees of separation at the very most. Mind you, the same can be said of Oslo, Hong Kong and Singapore…

 

[westernman]

This probably isn’t helpful but I do recall that the majority of the beneficial ownership of a Greek ship must be Greek.

Just to make sure that everything is clear, the Greek owner can be a Greek company owned by a citizen/resident of somewhere else.

 

[newtothis]

Captain Costacopoulos isn’t a great fan of the Greek Flag!

As rabbit holes go, it’s not a bad one. It’s well supplied with March Hares, Mad Hatters, Red Queens, Mock Turtles, White Rabbits and even the occasional Dormouse, and everybody is within two degrees of separation at the very most. Mind you, the same can be said of Oslo, Hong Kong and Singapore…

I was surprised how many Greece-flagged vessels there are. We list over 6,000. Obvs many are ferries, local traders etc, but I did find plenty trading internationally, that I would have assumed would be under flags of convenience open registries.